The Dodge Hornet is perhaps the most bewildering car in the Stellantis lineup right now. Take an Alfa Romeo Tonale, Dodge-ify it, then ship it to Chrysler Jeep Dodge Ram dealers in hopes the general public would bite. That appears to be the formula here and Dodge is getting stung by poor sales and critical reviews.
Some of my favorite reviews come from regular people rather than journalists. There’s something great about the raw, unfiltered words of someone firing off how they feel about a car. In today’s Morning Dump, we have V10omous, who took up an offer of $100 to drive a Hornet:
This was a base model GT, 2.0T not PHEV, sticker was about $33,000. Basically, the model you’ll probably rent at an airport in the near future.
I will start by saying I do not have a lot of experience with cheap compact CUVs, so I’m evaluating in a vacuum.
The highs:
-The seat was quite comfortable for a base model, cloth cushion.
-Even in base form, I like the styling. It’s aggressive without seemingly losing much functionality.
-Acceleration, handling, braking seem adequate if not especially thrilling given the marketing of the vehicle.
The lows:
-The NVH is so bad I can’t believe this product was approved for sale. Idling at a stop light is like doing so in the Viper, only with an engine a quarter the size and no side pipes. The seat shakes and the buzzing is incessant (maybe that’s why they call it the Hornet). Does anyone want this in their compact CUV?
-The transmission programming needs work. Shifts harshly when driving normally.
-The gauges are the weirdest I’ve ever seen. Starting in park, the only numbers illuminated on the speedometer are 0 and 160 mph, and for the tach, 0 and 7. The rest fill in only as the needle sweeps past them. I might get used to that, but it’s off-putting at first. I would never get used to a gas gauge and oil pressure gauge that seem not to work at all. I had no idea how much gas was in the vehicle (the miles to empty was also not working).
-The turn signal functionality is inscrutable. It doesn’t seem to have tap to signal three times available, but it also doesn’t physically move when you want the signal to remain on. So I’d be in a turn lane and the signal would stop flashing and I’d need to hit it again. But when changing lanes on the highway it would keep going and going.
-Rear visibility was notably poor compared to others in the class.
Obviously, I’m not the target market for this vehicle. So I’ve tried to keep my criticism as universal as possible. But besides the reports of poor quality (nothing seemed badly built on mine), this just seems half-baked.
Adding to the overall Stellantis experience, this dealer had a pink Wrangler 392 with a $105,000 MSRP in their showroom. Nothing against pink vehicles for those who want them, but this combo seemed especially poorly thought out. It’ll probably be there a year from now.
I love it!
Today, David wrote about what’s inside of a heated seat. Heated seats are great and all, but I’m right there with Goblin:
Cooled seats are probably the best car invention this side of car AC, and anyone who perfects the technology deserves all the credits they can get. Heated seats are also a great thing, but cooled ones are a game changer. Despite sounding like the gimmickiest of gimmicks.
The ventilated seats in the Polaris Slingshot were legitimately awesome even though you’d think such would be useless in an open-air vehicle.
Have a great evening, everyone!
Everyone I know is already tired of me talking about how awesome vented seats are. My personal cars don’t have them, but when I get to shuttle a new car with them I know it’s going to be a comfortable 4-6 hour drive.
Shortly before the pandemic, I got a ride from an alignment shop to work in one of the tech’s brand new Dodge Dart. I remember the vibration at idle feeling like the engine mounts were completely trashed. I told him he needed new engine mounts, and he pointed out that the car had like 1,000 miles on the odometer. I was shocked and assumed there was a defect. Maybe that’s just acceptable NVH levels for Dodge after all!
heated and ventilated seats are an absolute must for me on any car purchase since i’ve had the option. don’t need the heat really, but def need the ventilation.
bonus points if you can heat and ventilate at the same time though
Those and a heated steering wheel have become my mandatory items as well. Wish I could ditch the sunroof option as I have no use for it.
Those are premium subscription features.
My 2008 MKZ has the AC seats, versus just ventilated, and good lord are they the best thing ever. Rather than just a breeze being blown through, these things get COLD. In a black car with black leather it makes summer bearable. Every time I think about getting rid of it for something newer I remember the seats, and the whole no payment thing since I’ve had it forever.
NVH hasn’t been a Mopar strong suit since 2006 with the introduction of the World engines, though I’ve been in enough 2.0T’s to know that no one knows bad NVH until you’ve driven an old World engine…. of which I do, daily.
Has it ever been a Mopar strong suit? Owned a few 60s and 70s, a 2000s Magnum, and ridden in many of their newer products and they have much to learn on this subject.
I mean, honestly, I think the 6-cylinder Mopars have always had better NVH. Never drove a healthy one that had NVH issues.
If the site wants to pay me $100 to go test drive other cars off dealer lots, I’m willing to do so. I might even put a bit more effort into my reviews. Glad some people enjoyed this one more than I enjoyed the Hornet itself.
Cooled seats with sueded microfiber material is the best combination I ever had. It feels like when you enter the big refrigerator at Costco to get a gallon of milk, that aaaaahhhhhh yes its cold I love it.
With leather it doesnt work as good since leather by itself gets hot and sticky, it only makes the seats comfortable enough but not a cold feeling.
I wonder if the 2.0T + 9 speed is so unrefined because it wasn’t originally an engine option in the Tonale?
I don’t think anyone has gotten the 9HP right yet
The hardware effectively dictates that no one *can* get the 9HP right. It has an un-synchronized range shift right in the middle of the pattern. That means that one shift out of 8 doesn’t have uninterrupted power delivery – the powertrain has to de-clutch the transmission, shift into neutral, clutch back in so that the countershaft is running at engine speed, then take control of the engine to speed match the countershaft with the next gear so that the dog clutch can engage with the next gear without grinding, then return control over the engine to the driver. It has to do all this in less than a second while trying to be unnoticeable. Spoiler alert – it can’t achieve all those goals. You will feel the range shift.
It is a dumb mechanical design and ZF should have known better. And considering the pain and suffering that Mopar (under various ownerships at this point) has suffered due to this engine over the last decade (first introduced into the understandably un-loved KL Cherokee in 2014), they should have known better than engineering a new model with that transmission as part of the powertrain.
Does anyone other than CJDR use that transmission?
Honda has used it pretty extensively but mostly moved away fromit, but it’s still found in the current Passport & Ridgeline. Seems like they were trying to beef up their 10-speed to take over for more rugged applications, as the Pilot switched to that in its current gen, as does the next Passport.
Nissan is actually actively switching to it, the current Pathfinder/QX60 use it with the VQ35, the QX60 pairs it to the VCT next year and that’s what the next Murano uses.
Iirc Honda had many of the same problems as the Mopar applications leading to a ton of warranty replacements.
I remember reading somewhere that a pair of Acura techs were making 40 book hours per day when they had gotten the swap time down to 2 hours in an MDX when the job paid 9
Not sure whats worse, the 9 speed or the old CVT!
Probably the CVT. The 9 speed can be improved with better software to a point. The CVT is largely hopeless.
So they managed to potentially turn a move away from a JATCO CVT into only a sidegrade? I’m impressed!
So…basically a high tech double clutching son of a gun.
If I had both more money and more motivation than sense, it would be funny to swap the 9hp in a Cherokee with some manual transaxle that could be persuaded to fit, but with all the synchronizers taken out, just to prove I could shift it more smoothly (albeit more slowly) than the automatic that was replaced. 😉
I’ve seen one of those with a factory manual (and diesel) in Europe.
Unsycronised manuals can be shifted so much smoother by hand than by computer. The Eaton ultrashift always ground seventh, the change in range gear, in the semi I used to drive.
The running gag among my acquaintances in the automotive transmission world is that ZF took the idea of Ford’s V12 used in various Aston Martins and others (mate two V6s to each other) and applied it to a couple of 4- and/or 5-speeds they had laying around, and called it a day once they got enough of the gears to allow for forward momentum most of the time. They’re so rough and unpredictable.
Never understood the hate about the tonale, beside being just another random CUV.
Drove it for quite a while in France, a recent phev model that wasn’t plagued with problem, I got none of those complaints except for rear visibility and trunk space/interior storage, it was quite a nice, comfortable car all around, no complaints
about nvh, road feeling or handling, was expecting so much worse from all the reviews.
Pretty sure big parts of them is just Americans liking to piss on European products that aren’t German.
A GLA, GLB, or bmw x1/x2 is quite a worse experience than that.
The different drivetrain could have been a but part of the difference you experienced. I’m not sure if they tuned the suspension any differently between the Tonale and Hornet, but I wouldn’t be surprised given the Hornet’s much lower starting price.
I had a Tonale as a service loaner recently. Granted I’m a little biased toward wanting to like them, but I did not have any major complaints. It’s a bit boring, especially for the MSRP, but otherwise no complaints.
The PHEV powertrain probably suits Europe’s lower speed, lower distance driving better since it helps limit exposure of its poor aero leading to poor range, leading to poor power output with the battery depleted. The North American exclusive 2.0T powertrain has a troublesome 9-speed auto with a design flaw (see Mike Smith’s reply to my comment above) and likely had much less development time given the last-minute nature of the Hornet, likely leading several of the criticisms the Euro Tonale doesn’t face. I think auto reviewers also have (possibly unfair) higher expectations for Alfas to be very pretty and fun to drive compared to the other brands, but that may also be the fault of Alfas branding/marketing.
Just picked up a rental Hornet RT PHEV. I agree with most of these complaints. I’m not the target audience either but I can see the value and need for a cuv like the hornet.
Bought one in August 2023. Acceleration is fun & it is quick. The turbo 4 makes a very cool sound when accelerating. At idling with the stop/start feature off you don’t know it is running. AWD makes handling fun especially on turns. I average the same MPG as my regular 4 cylinder ’17 200 did. So this paticular driver is being very picky. Outside of a warranty claim on a bad inside wiring harness it has had no other issues. I am currently over 30k on the odometer. Tires still have some tread left (I have a new set of tires waiting to be put on).
I’m glad you like yours. I don’t have any axe to grind with Stellantis/Dodge, I’m an owner and I usually root for them. My test drive unit was as I described; it’s definitely possible something was wrong with it.
I doubt there was anything wrong, I had the same impression. Especially the NVH. At idle it sounds loud… inside and out. I think to some it sounds “sporty” but for a commuter car it’s a bit much. My corvette (c4, I’m not fancy) with a Borla is quieter at idle.
But, maybe a good example of how different people see things differently.
I admit to typically finding the sound of 4 cylinder engines especially grating, so I’m sure I had a worse reaction to the sound than some others who may like it more.
The seat vibrating is inexcusable in this class of vehicle IMO.
You are aware this is not the only negative review that has been written about the hornet right?
To be fair, maybe jason got the magically perfectly assembled one. The legendary car that everything went right on the assembly line. It happens. My great uncle had a malaise era ford Ltd that went 400000 miles on the original engine. No one can figure out how that happened.
Actually I’d argue it’s in open air vehicles where climate controlled seats most come into their own and have a big impact. Heated grips on a motorcycle are a game changer for cool weather riding for example.
100%. Heated seats with the top down on a cool night are amazing.
I’ve never really felt the need for cooled seats, even with a black leather interior, but the heated seats are a must.
Out of curiosity, what part of the country are you in?
Because I won’t even consider a black interior without ventilated/cooled seats. Convertible or otherwise.
My Boxster has the black interior with the cooled seats and I still wish I’d held out to find a tan interior.
I am located outside Atlanta so if we get a sunny day in January the black seats can still get warm enough to crank up the cooled seats for a few minutes.
Yeah, that’s probably a big part of it. I’m in the Bay Area, so my weather’s set to “easy mode” – although we’ve usually got at least a few 100+ days out here and it’s still Fine. I think the AC’s good enough and the greenhouse is small enough it hasn’t been an issue, but you’re right, I haven’t had to test it in southern heat.
I never felt the need for cooled seats either. Then I got a car that had them (Covid era; limited options to pick from, otherwise I wouldn’t have paid for it) and now I’m thinking I’ll never buy another vehicle without it.
Having rented a couple UTVs in southern Utah this past summer, I can see why cool seats would be amazing.
Otherwise, with where I live in Northwest Pennsylvania, heated seats are a requirement in any car I buy. I’ll use the heated seats on even brisk summer evenings and drive around with the windows down.
I’d kill for cooled seats in my convertible – as the humidity in the summer has me melting into the low-grade light-colored leather seats.
I could not imagine not having seat heaters too – I use them 3 seasons a year. Because there’s nothing like taking a top-down drive in the evening w/ the heat blasting and seat heaters warming the buns.
I wouldn’t take heated seats for free even living in New England, but cooled I would pay for.
The first time I drove a car with ventilated seats was one of my few ‘Oh, I am never going back’ moments.
“heated steering wheel” was mine. Makes the first ten minutes of a cold, icy commute SO much better.
Skip the hornet / toenail, by a nice used Lexus UX.
I can’t fit in a UX.
Luckily every other manufacturer makes a full range of products I would take over a Hornet.
The UX is tiny. The cargo space is soooo small. NX would probably be a better sub.
The cargo space is small. I have one as a loaner while my ct200h is getting work done, and the cargo space and overall dimensions are definitely smaller. Imo overall it’s just a better and perfected ct200h, comfier seats, nicer interior, softer ride, better and torquier engine, etc. My only miss is that it’s not a traditional hatchback. I agree that the NX is probably better if you need more room.
I agree with you– I really like the CT200h and the UX250h. And I love to drive a small car, but the UX cargo space made it a no go for the stuff I need to haul a couple of times a week. 🙁 That rear roofline cut needs to be a little less severe and I’d be all over it!
Huh. My entire family fits perfectly fine lol, I didn’t realize it was that small.
I therefore revise my statement to “Skip the hornet / toenail, by a nice used (anything else)
Toyota and Lexus do not make cars for the man who is very long in the leg, and the smaller they are the greater the struggle.
It seems half-baked because it *is* half-baked. I have it on good authority that Alfa Romeo mostly completed the project as the Tonale, then was told at the eleventh hour by the Stellantis overlords that it would need to share its toy with Dodge. The basic structure and interfaces were already set, but Dodge got to do the interior finishing, style details and specific tuning.
It’d be interesting to see how it compares to the Tonale.
Ah yes, Italian engineering with domestic styling – the dream combination.
Mmm, Dodge Arna.
Two great tastes that taste great together… if you have no taste.
Like putting ketchup on gelato. *chef’s kiss*
Having had a series of 3 Escapes as company cars in a previous job, and having rented Rogues on trips, I think that NVH stuff might just be how these small crossover things are. The big difference is that the Hornet is one of the pricier ones out there, and just doesn’t do anything better.
Yes, the difference between a Forester and an Outback is incredible. Same with a RAV4 and a Highlander. I think its how they keep the costs down. That and average engines.
That was 100% my experience with a rental RAV4 I drove right after driving my MIL’s Highlander. I expected small Highlander, and received Home Depot paint shaker. It was surprising how loud it was at highway speeds. It was livable, I think, but such a gap between them.
As a Floridian (mostly not by choice), this times 1000.
My last Florida rental car, in July, was a black-on-black Mazda3 with leatherette seating materials (rental lot was low due to 4th of July travel I guess, but it did have FL plates, so someone made a conscious decision here)
The first time I parked that car in the sun for a day, it took nearly 10m to get the seats down to “won’t cause burns” from “Nuclear Fire”. Remote start & cooled seats would have been a game changer.
Who thought black on black was a good idea?
So did V10omous ever get the $100?
It’s pending some corporate BS. I’ll give it a 50/50 chance.
I’d say sue the dealer for false advertising if you don’t get it, but they’re already a CDJR dealer. Don’t kick ’em while they’re down.
I will probably be a gift certificate/credit towards a future Stellantis purchase.