While it’s not as bad as the 753-day supply of Jeep Renegades from earlier this year, the many Dodge Hornets for sale is another sign that Stellantis hasn’t quite found it yet. How many Stellantis products would you guess make the top ten list of vehicles by market day supply? Four? Six? More? Yes, the answer is more. Let’s take a look at a list of the vehicles filling up dealership lots these days.
It’s a Monday here in the land of The Morning Dump and I’m excited to talk to you about Mazda and its EV plan, because up until now the plan had all the coherence of the musical Cats, which is to say very little. Also, fun fact, the only time I’ve seen Cats live it was in German, but it didn’t make any more or less sense.
Tesla is still resistant to Northern European unions, causing more trouble for the company there in terms of backing from large investment funds. How long can Musk hold out? Probably forever.
And, finally, America is the absolute global leader in oil production and is otherwise crushing it, but we have a Democrat in The White House so it’s a little awkward to talk about.
So, So, So Many Dodge Hornets
The Dodge Hornet is a shortcut. Let’s be honest. It is an extremely lazy rebadge of the Alfa Romeo Tonale, which is already a second-string crossover (Car and Driver places the Hornet 12th out of 21 small crossovers). It is quick for a small crossover and comes with a PHEV version, which is cool, but this is an extremely competitive segment and a starting price higher than the CR-V is hard to swallow.
Just for funsies, I looked around to see what people are listing these things for and I found vehicles like this 2024 Dodge Hornet R/T Plus for $49,720. Yikes. If you’re a Hornet owner or fanboy and can justify that price to me I am all ears.
Looking at the CarEdge data on Market Day Supply for December, which takes the number of vehicles it sees listed across dealerships and the number that sell over 45 days and calculates the number of days it would take to sell, we can see a lot of Stellantis. Too much Stellantis.
The top of the mountain (or bottom, maybe) is the Ram 2500, but this is a small number of vehicles (1,602 for sale) and the vehicle has undergone numerous recalls this year so it’s a little harder to pin that down to low demand or oversupply.
What stands out to me is the Dodge Hornet, which went on sale earlier this year and had 10,781 for sale, but only moved (via this data) about 939 cars during the period at an average selling price of $39,931. Market day supply is 517. This lines up pretty well with the 1,753 Hornet sales that the company reported in Q3 of this year.
Obviously, it’s a new-ish vehicle, so production and availability could always be issues, but the disparity between the number of vehicles available and those sold seems a little too great for that. We’ll see when Stellantis reports quarterly sales in January.
The rest of the list is, woof, not great for Stellantis either. In #3 is the Dodge Charger, which everyone knows is on the way out, followed by the Dodge Challenger, which is also not long for the world in its current iteration. The good news is there are a ton for sale.
There are three non-Stellantis products on here, including the Mach-E (matching the Challenger in sales pace, though with slightly fewer for sale), the outgoing Jaguar F-Type (but there are only 657 of them for sale), and the Mercedes-Benz SL.
Looking at the list of cars with the lowest Market Day Supply shows a bunch of affordable-ish cars, some hybrids, and a few super in-demand vehicles.
With just seven days of Market Day Supply is the extremely popular RAV4 Hybrid, followed by the hybrid-only Toyota Sienna. Two cars I’m considering buying next, the Ford Maverick and Corolla Cross (also both available as hybrids), have a 31-day supply. Shout out to our awesome colleague Jessica Ray, who just picked one up:
After 15 months, I’m the proud owner of the cutest, cheapest, and most fuel efficient trucklet you can buy!
Meet my 2024 Ford Maverick XL Hybrid! I’m so happy she’s here ???????? pic.twitter.com/sqha36vXHS
— Jessica Ray (@jessicaray0) December 10, 2023
Both the Kia Rio and the Chevrolet Trax are on this list, with average selling prices of $19,091 and $24,430, respectively. The Land Rover Range Rover Sport, GLC-Class Mercedes, and BMW X5 are also here because those are popular vehicles people love.
Given the preponderance of crossovers and hybrids on the good list just highlights how awkward it is to have the Hornet on the bad list.
Mazda Is Going To Be An “Intentional Follower”
Mazda is hard for me to classify. The company’s cars look great. Most of them are among the best vehicles in each class. They’re still making the Miata! I intrinsically like Mazda and, yet, Kia and Hyundai are running laps around them by doing what I think we all suspect Mazda is capable of doing.
Like many other Japanese automakers, Mazda has been behind on EVs, offering only the super weird MX-30 thing. Given everyone freaking out about electric car demand, maybe that was the better plan?
The future of Mazda has been a little uncertain to me, but CEO Masahiro Moro talked to Automotive News and he’s got a strategy.
“One of the big issues for us is demand is uncertain,” Moro said. “In the current market, the reality for electrification, in particular for battery EVs, is the pace is not that high. So we may start a little slower in terms of the ramp-up. Not necessarily in terms of timing, but the ramp-up.
“That is why I call us an intentional follower on EVs.”
Mazda expects to derive 25 to 40 percent of its global sales from EVs in 2030. But Moro said EV demand, worldwide and in the U.S., is trending toward the lower end.
While EVs will be running slow, Mazda is joining the hybrid hype train with the rest of us:
Plug-ins account for half the volume of the CX-90 crossover in the U.S. That is about double the ratio the brand originally forecast, Moro said. And for the CX-50, Mazda expects a hybrid version to account for 20 to 25 percent of sales when it is added as an option.
The CX-70, expected to land stateside next year, will also get a plug-in hybrid.
Unlike the CX-90 and CX-70 plug-in systems, which Mazda developed in-house, the CX-50 will adopt a hybrid system from partner Toyota Motor Corp., Moro said. Toyota owns a 5.1 percent stake in Mazda, and Mazda makes the CX-50 at an Alabama plant jointly operated with Toyota.
2024. Year of the Hybrid!
Tesla, Unions, Nordic Pension Funds, Et Cetera
Tesla’s ongoing battle with unions in Northern Europe continues, with the latest twist being demands from Nordic pension funds that CEO Elon Musk just recognize the unions and move on to other things.
“Tesla’s attitude against the right to collective bargaining is of deep concern,” said a draft of the letter to the carmaker’s management provided by Norway’s largest pension fund KLP.
The Nordic region’s labour market model combines high job mobility with income security for the unemployed through a long tradition of dialogue between employer associations and labour unions.
“(This model) has enabled the Nordics to thrive as one of the most prosperous and harmonious regions worldwide,” the draft letter said.
Harmony. Love. Working together. Gløgg. Those Norwegians have it figured out.
Drill, Biden, Drill
“.. American oil production — already higher than any other country — is quietly setting new records and helping to push down gas prices.”@axios #OOTT ⛽️ https://t.co/FB5o9oZjax pic.twitter.com/IUl7Bd3Fw5
— Carl Quintanilla (@carlquintanilla) December 11, 2023
Raise your hand if you knew that America was the biggest oil producer in the world coming out of the pandemic. Raise your hand if you knew we’re hitting record amounts of oil production at 13.1 million barrels a day.
It’s ok if you didn’t know. If we had a Republican as the president then it’s quite possible that the president would be crowing about this fact. For a green-forward, climate-forward progressive like President Joe Biden, it’s a little more awkward.
This graphic comes from Axios and they make basically the same point:
Between the lines: The record drilling — and how to talk about it — has squeezed President Biden between young climate activists and persistent GOP attacks on his energy record.
Biden has remained relatively silent about U.S. oil strength. But he does like promoting lower gas prices, which this supply increase helps enable.
Some moderate Democrats want Biden to openly take credit for record production.
Making it even more awkward is that President Biden has only so much to do with this. There are a lot of places that the industry would like to drill and they can’t, which is why a lot of the boom is coming from private lands.
The Big Question
What do I have to do to get you, or anyone, into a Dodge Hornet today?
The problem with the hornet is they were clearly designing and getting this thing ready for market in the midst of the Covid pricing surge. So they filled it with expensive tech, and used really nice quality interior trimmings, but that’s not really what most people are shopping for in a small SUV.
If people have the budget for a $40,000 plus suv, they are NOT shopping Hornets.
Our Base GT models have so far been selling pretty well, but the farther away from 30K they go, the longer they sit.
This needs to be price competitive with the new Chevy trax to be any kind of success, and it’s just not.
great insight alert!
Wait…They named it after an old AMC? Nothing says class and upward mobility like calling a $40,000 CUV a Hornet. Jeez Dodge what are you all smoking?
Chrysler has always been one to dust off old nameplates, seemingly more than GM or Ford. The Pacifica name was on 2 concepts, the 2nd previewing the production crossover that bore the name, and then eventually a minivan today. The Hornet offers a GLH package as a nod to the Omni GLH too.
But then it’s also a brand that offered a color called Contusion Blue on many models, even the Grand Caravan…
I’m very surprised that they haven’t been able to stick a smaller (non-hybrid) engine in it yet, such as the same 1.3T (180hp/199lb-ft @1850 rpm) used in the hybrid, or a version of the 1.5T (160hp/177lb-ft w/hybrid) the Tonale is sold with in other markets. 180hp is about the norm in this segment for a base engine.
I get that Dodge is supposed to be a performance brand, but it’s also the same company that sold:
Grand Caravan (average power for the class)Durango (average base engine but with upgrade options)Dart (average base engine and a warm upgrade engine)Avenger (both I4 & V6 competitive with contemporaries)Dodge could probably use the (averagely powered) 1.3T (non-hybrid) as the base engine, 2.0T for the higher trim performance models, and simply drop the plug-in hybrid and let it be an Alfa Romeo exclusive. Alternatively, drop the 2.0T and use the PHEV as the upgrade engine, which is likely going to be a trend at Stellantis soon.
Then, make a new base trim that removes the following from the current base model:
AWD, as FWD is enough with 180hp, and AWD can be optional (this would also improve fuel economy further, but may be a deal breaker for too many buyers)Standard adaptive dampers (how many shoppers even notice this?)Power folding mirrors with integrated turn signals (do folding mirrors matter much in the USDM?)One-touch windows on all doors (just the driver’s window is enough on the base model)Rain Sensing Wipers (unless it’s required for IIHS ratings)Cloth/Leatherette seats, full cloth is good enough (if the leatherette is minimal, then leave it be)12.3″ Instrument Display, an analog speedo with a smaller screen can do (and is a good upsell feature)
This will probably push down the (currently $31.4k) starting price into the high $20ks, which is a lot closer with things like the Escape, CR-V, Sportage, and Equinox.
You’d need to keep stuff like the driver assists, since the IIHS requires that all trims come standard with these to qualify for important Top Safety Pick awards. You also shouldn’t remove push button start, since the Kia Boys scandal would make buyers wary. Leaving the big 10.25″ UConnect screen standard will attract buyers, and idk if FCA has a downgrade options for it anyways.
“I get that Dodge is supposed to be a performance brand”
There is a point of HUGE annoyance for me, These brands and their “Identities”
A while back, Stellantis decided that each of it’s brands had to have it’s own mission, ethos, and customer base. It’s just so dumb to me, because you’re limited now with what you can do. Chrysler was supposedly going to be the “people mover” brand (dumbest thing I’ve ever heard) Jeep the “Adventure” Brand ( sure, lean into that, it works) Ram with their Work image and Dodge, the “Performance guys”
Stellantis in the US should be a two brand ship.
+Let Chrysler die. Leave it go, with some dignity. Extend the 300 and Pacifica one more year, while they work on a rebadge for the pacifica, which would be:
+The new Dodge Caravan. Simple rebadge of the pacifica, but with a bit more macho styling and a chargery front-end. IT WOULD SELL.
+Next, a Rebaged Compass with that same aggro styling. Call it a Spirit, call it a neon, Idongiveashit. Just offer a low cost suv to slot under the Hornet.
+Roll Ram back into Dodge, it’s been 10 years and EVERYONE still calls them Dodges.
Make a Ram Dakota out of the gladiator bones. Slightly bigger interior, bed and cab, but all Jeep Gladiator Running gear. Solves two problems. Dodge get’s a midsizer, and toledo is back up to three shifts again.
+ Plus of course, the new maverick/Santa Cruz fighter. Dodge Rampage sounds a HELL of a lot better than Ram Rampage or Ram 1000
Now, You have Jeep, with their full catalog, and Dodge, now with a full compliment of vehicles, ready for a REAL resurgence.
No gimmicks. No sport or performance pretenses. Just nicely styled domestic vehicles. And then little by little, you grow those brands by keeping things fresh and working on quality control.
Hyundai and Kia didn’t become cool and fashionable because someone came up with an “Image” for thier brands. They became cool because they started building shit that looked cool, and priced that shit fairly.
That could be us, Stellantis,
That could be us!
See that makes sense. Problem is, you gotta sell the idea to guys educated in Europe and wearing fancy Italian shoes. They will never understand.
“Stellantis in the US should be a two brand ship.”
Nah… They need more than two brands. The brands I’d keep in North America are Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep, Alfa Romeo and Maserati
Dodge – Sporty vehicles, affordable vehicles, mass market vehicles, trucks… including all the vehicles under the Ram brand. Dodge would be for going against Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, Kia, etc.
Chrysler – Affordable luxury vehicles. Take Dodge vehicles, make them quieter, smoother riding and more luxurious. Have Chrysler versions of Dodges where it makes sense. Chrysler would go against Buick, Acura, Lexus, Infiniti and the lower end Euro luxury vehicles.
Jeep – Continues what it’s currently doing.
Alfa Romeo – higher/high-end Euro performance vehicles to go up against BMW and Porsche.
Maserati – really high end luxury/performance vehicles. Should go against the Mercedes S-Class on the LOW end, Bentleys on the high end.
I would kill off the Ram brand (It should go back under Dodge) and Fiat in North America.
This article is perfectly timed for a sensational piece about how Stellantis is failing with the Hornet.
Yes, the Hornet has issues, yes, its not selling that well because its a brand new car, in a very competitive CUV market.
But the REAL problem is that Stellantis really failed on the rollout of the Hornet for some reason.
The Hornets started hitting the lots about 6 months ago, and there was a trickle of these flowing out to dealers. Most dealers 3-4 months ago, had ZERO Hornets, and if they had one, a lot of times, it would show on the Mopar website that they had it, but yet the dealer website wouldnt list that they had one for sale.
Its only been the last 45 days, that there has been a huge ramping up of these hitting dealer lots, and my local dealer just got a shipment of like 7-10 Hornets within the last 3 weeks. 2 months ago there were about 4,500 in inventory nationwide. Now there are about 8500-10,000.
So, with a huge wave of Hornets hitting the lots in the last 30 days, plus very poor sales in the last quarter, the picture does look dismal, but its not accurate. A proper barometer for the Hornet would be what the sales are for next quarter.
“What do I have to do to get you, or anyone, into a Dodge Hornet today?”
Make a RWD electric version with at least 250 miles of EPA-rated range and that has the NACS charge port… and sell it for less than the Tesla Model 3 sells for.
Hmmm… of course, I’d consider risking ownership of a Dodge Hornet (knowing full well that I’d be seeing a lot of the dealer’s service techs over the first few years) if (and only if) it were offered to me at a price I couldn’t refuse, which seems unlikely no matter how many Hornets sit idle on dealer lots.
From what I’ve read here and elsewhere, the Hornet (nee Tonale) is chock full of teething problems, electronic and otherwise. Specwise, it seems not merely competitive but potentially actually appealing. However, systems have to work consistently in order to be considered an actual capability of the car. Hence, the word’s gotten out (about significant and ongoing problems) and it’s putting the kibosh on sales to some extent. Add that to the challenge acquiring market share in a hyper-competitive segment with multiple existing standouts (Honda’s CRV and Toyota’s Rav4) and it’s the perfect storm (for disappointing sales/excessive inventory).
Regardless, no one’s going to offer me a once-in-a-lifetime deal on a Hornet, so I needn’t worry about it, and it doesn’t strike me as the kind of vehicle I’d be considering buying second-hand, let alone third or fourth.
Apropos of nothing, let me also say that I’d much rather be seen driving an Alfa Romeo (even a relatively cheap one with issues) than a Dodge, but I’m sure that’s just my costal elitism talking. 😉
The Hornet is to dodge what the Freemont was to FIAT if we are talking lazy badge-engineering.
Good to see the high domestic oil production numbers. I’m generally a “leave it in the ground” type but robust US production blunts the ability of Saudi Arabia to play production games around Election Season.
I’d rather have the AMC Hornet, since it’s an actual car; well, make that an AMC Eagle instead since I love those
-Also, just gimme the Alfa version of the Hornet
Not in a “more cars should be manufactured and do more polluting and such” kind of way, but I’m glad the Sienna seems to be in high demand, at least by that chart.
Anyone buying a minivan in 2023 is a chad who recognizes “I need the space and people-moving capacity, and I don’t need the bells, whistles, 4×4, etc. and inefficiency of a pickup or big SUV.”
Plus, I mean, last I checked those are rated 35 mpg city and highway? Absolutely nuts. Just a small margin worse than my 2012 Prius v and a hell of a lot roomier and safer.
If it wasn’t for the middle seats not being easily removable (plus, let’s be real, the price as compared to my current life situation) I’d love one
I don’t want a Hornet but will take one of the Ram 2500s if I could afford it.
I’m confused about all the hate for the Hornet. It and the Toenail are attractively styled and have the right features, which I assume is all that small SUV buyers care about, right? Yeah they’ll both die a premature death of Stellantis syndrome, but that’s the second owner’s problem.
Problem is, the (lack of) reliability is currently verrrrry much a first owner problem.
I agree it’s a nice vehicle along with the Toenail.
They just have MSRPs that are in fantasyland.
Knock 20k off the price and the Hornet would be competitive. I almost fell over laughing when I saw Hornet pricing first released imagining them trying to sell them.
An Alfa Romeo rebadged as a Dodge? At least it’ll be reliable!
First, I still call Ram trucks Dodges, not sure if it is just stubborn nostalgia or just definance of change. Either way, another sign as I get older, I am skipping becoming like my dad and going straight into becoming my grandpa.
Also didn’t Stella learn anything from 1990’s GM. . .too many brands, too much overhead, stale product pipeline. It is like Stella turned Dodge into Pontiac, Chrysler into Oldsmobile, Fiat into Saturn, and Alpa Rameo into. . .I don’t know. . .Saab?
That said, I hope Stella can get their product pipeline sorted out. . .I miss many of those GM brands. While they did produced some really cool cars, I also miss having more options.
Just the other day I told my wife that that “Rams” aren’t Dodges anymore. It’s been what, like 14 years? She says, “They aren’t? Really?” Yeah, they have the Ram Ram 1500 and so on. Let’s cut the crap, they’re Dodges.
“First, I still call Ram trucks Dodges, “
+1
Making Ram a separate brand was stupid and demonstrated the lack of understanding of the heritage of the Dodge brand.
The Dodge brothers started out doing trucks.
Lower the price and throw in the Tru-Coat.
Look, I’d accept a free Hornet…but that’s basically it.
I mean if you’re cross shopping on looks alone, the Hornet is the absolute more homely version of the CX-5.
You would have to swap the Hornet Body and drive train with something not Alpha for me to want to get into one. That company has negligible quality records and this is really just a less handsome overpriced version of an already terrible vehicle.
It does look like they are trying to move the 2024 Hornets with some decent lease deals. When combined with the lease incentives for Plug-in’s you can get an R/T E AWD for 409 a month with $4300 down on a 36 month/36,000 mile lease. That’s pretty competitive. The R/T PLUS EAWD is $426 with the same down payment. Both of those have 32 miles of electric range and 288hp and 383 lb/ft.
Yeah, it’s a rebadge of an Alfa, but that made it seem pretty nice inside. I thought it felt fairly premium when I sat in one at the Auto Show this year.
I do agree that the top trims are pretty pricey if you are buying, but the federal tax credits for PHEV’s on leases help the lease price quite a bit.
There’s some decent value on the base Hornet and you can get a pretty nice package with the GT and the Tech Pack/Cold Weather Group for $35,000. I do think it gets too expensive too fast, but I don’t understand why it’s selling as poorly as it is, when GM can move as many Terrains and Equinoxes as they do.
How do you get me into a Hornet? Easy, slap the Alfa badge back on it.
The Scandinavians have harmony love and working together. The Neofascist Musk believes in none of those. Bodes well for Volvo, Tesla? Not so much.