Good morning, Autopians, and welcome to the middle of the week, and the start of a new month! Today’s search takes us to Cleveland, which, as I understand it, rocks. But first, let’s see which beat-up toy you chose as your fourth car yesterday:
Yeah, I figured the title thing might scare some folks off the Mini. But I also notice that the seller has already knocked a grand off the asking price. For $1,900, for something tiny and speedy to mess around with, I think I’d go for the Mini, as much as I adore first-gen Neons.
And now for something less fun, but more practical. Today we’re looking at two four-cylinder crossover SUVs, and since it has become something of a theme this week, both are banged up a bit. Here they are.
2006 Saturn Vue – $1,700
Engine/drivetrain: 2.2 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: Cleveland, OH
Odometer reading: 181,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yep!
Once upon a time, Saturn made a wagon version of their S-series cars. But when the S gave way to the Ion, the wagon didn’t come along for the ride. The wagon’s place in the lineup was filled by the Vue, a small crossover. The base model, like this one, shared the 2.2 liter Ecotec four and five-speed Getrag manual with the Ion, offered only with front-wheel-drive. AWD Vues were automatic-only and powered by a 3.5 liter V6 from, of all places, Honda.
This Vue is not only a stick, but also green, and a good shade of green at that. The seller says it “runs well” and is “mechanically fine,” but doesn’t elaborate. This engine/transmission combo has a good reputation, but a little more detail would be nice. I think the front bumper may be a little bit out of whack, but not badly. And the inside is grubby around the edges, but serviceable.
It would be nice to see it without all the ice and snow all over it, but I get it: sometimes you need to sell a car, and the weather doesn’t cooperate. Seventeen hundred dollars seems like a good deal for this car, and I imagine some of you will choose it solely because it’s a manual, but I also imagine that it’s a tougher sell to the general public for the same reason. Sometimes we enthusiasts forget that shifting gears is a chore for most people, not a perk.
Boxy little crossovers like this are hard to find these days; everything has sloped rear windows and rounded corners. Me, I like this upright square shape better; it looks purposeful.
2006 Honda Element – $1,900
Engine/drivetrain: 2.4 liter dual overhead cam inline 4, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Lorain, OH
Odometer reading: 236,000 miles
Runs/drives? Sure does
Speaking of boxy and upright, how about Honda’s bizarre crossover, the Element? With its neoprene seats, suicide rear doors, and over-the-top plastic cladding, the Element is one of those love-it-or-hate-it cars. I’ve never understood why it got less hate than the equally bizarre Pontiac Aztek. Maybe it’s because the Element succeeded where the Aztek failed.
This Element has lost an altercation with something, and it cost it an eye. The impact was enough to total the car and earn it a salvage title, but the seller says it drives fine, so the damage is likely cosmetic. A new headlight is about eighty bucks from Rock Auto, and a little work with a hammer and a crowbar will straighten out the radiator support and get the hood closing a little better. For a car this cheap, a branded title and a few battle scars aren’t a big deal.
The Element’s big parlor trick is its doors, which are hinged fore and aft with no pillar in the middle, to create a gaping opening on either side of the car. It provides great access, though I know from experience that it can be awkward in tight parking spots: the doors themselves can block access to the opening. And sadly, the Element lacks one cool feature that its sister model, the CR-V, featured: a fold-out picnic table. (If the Element had such a thing, I suppose it would be called a periodic table?)
This car has a pile of miles on it – nearly a quarter million – and is only front-wheel-drive, both of which make it a less-desirable Element even without the body damage. But it’s no less useful for lacking all-wheel-drive, and Honda engines seem to run forever, so I would imagine this car still has some life left in it, after a little plastic surgery.
That will do it for Wednesday, the first of February. Two quirky four-cylinder front-drive crossovers, both in need of a little love, but both solid still. Which one will it be?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
In this case, give me the Saturn. The Vue wasn’t that great of a vehicle. But given this one is a manual 4cyl FWD one, there is far less to go wrong.
That Honda will need work and with that kind of mileage and the damage, it’s overpriced by about $1000.
Element all, my dear Watson, Element all.
Up vote for the wordplay!
The first-gen VUE used the L81 3.0 liter V6 for the first few couple years before switching to the Honda V6. Strangely enough, the VUE switched over while the L-Series kept using the L81 until the line was discontinued.
I never really understood why GM decided to jam the Honda V6 in the VUE as part of their engine supply agreement. Saturn’s image was still deeply rooted in it’s American-ness at that time. Maybe Saturn was the “least American” of GM’s American brands? Even then, the could have shoved it in some Daewoo’s, Isuzu’s or even the Saab 9-7.
Pretty much every article or review I read about the Vue with the Honda V6 said, “I don’t get it, but I also don’t hate it.”
It could be argued that using an import-brand engine to compete against an import-heavy class was “fighting them at their own game.” A Honda engine in a Chevy or Buick would probably have been sacrilegious to some buyers, never mind the Equinox rolled out the next year with the Chinese-built 3.4. And GM had the High Feature 3.6 roll out in 2004 at Cadillac and Buick (Rendezvous, then LaCrosse the year after) so dev plans for that were probably well in the works while the Honda deal was being inked.
I want to say the VUE’s domestic parts content actually went *up* with the Honda V6 because that was produced here while the Opel L81 was shipped over from England. The L-Series probably kept it since it was already a lame-duck model, with the MY2005 examples all produced in calendar year 2004.
I think the most investment GM wanted to put into the Daewoo products already in the works was other badges to throw on them. The Saab 9-7x and most Isuzus would have been a non-starter as a RWD chassis with the Honda transmission, maybe they’d figure a way to make the Grand Vitara work, or the GM-based XL7.
Honda might have said no to throwing it in anything in the same segment that they sold with a V6 too – a Malibu with the 3.5 when the Accord still had a 3.0? Or a Rendezvous with it against the Pilot or MDX?
Good insight. You’re probably spot-on with some of this.
Always wanted one of each honestly. But given the choice, the Vue is bigger, close to as reliable, and best of all, a manual!
Give me the Vue, a coupla horse blankets fer the interior, and I’ll be on a whole ‘nother planet!
Cars of this age in Cleveland are one fart away from completely disintegrating from beneath you. Forced to make a choice I’d go with the Saturn only because you wouldn’t have to worry about salvage title issues. And let’s be clear, every effort is a wasted effort with either of these.
I ate taco bell for dinner and am driving a 20+ year old native Cleveland vehicle. I like to live dangerously.
Dang. Are you trying to find the least desirable cars this week? Like I get that we’re supposed to be looking at shitboxes but still. Honda can’t legal be driven on the salvage so yet again I’m going with the clear title car even though the element is a much better car all around. I hate the vue, but the element is someone else’s project, and you know what they say about buying someone else’s project!
I had a 1998 Saturn and a 2003 Saturn. I didn’t have them very long.
My 2008 Honda Element I had for 13 years and it still ran fine when I sold it because I needed something simultaneously larger and quieter on the highway. (For my “weekend warrior” live sound business and for family trips.)
To date, and I’ve owned a lot of cars, the Element was the most versatile, useful and reliable TOOL I’ve ever owned. It was a swiss-army-knife car.
I wish I could still have a family-hauler without carpets and a reasonably sturdy plastic interior, AWD, a reasonable ground clearance, that is not a full size van. A minivan comes close, but is too posh with delicate interior bits that I’ll destroy.
If it was a 2004 or 2005 V6 Vue, the Saturn would have been part Honda (with the Honda 3.5 hiding under the hood). I voted Saturn. This gets bonus points for a stick, but at least even with an automatic option in 2006 they had dropped that horrendous CVT after the 2005 model year. I had a 2005 with the V6 and it was a fun little SUV with a ton of power, but even while new it was super squeaky with the plastic panels.
Is no one going to mention the elephant in the room!?!?!
“sadly, the Element lacks one cool feature that its sister model, the CR-V, featured: a fold-out picnic table. (If the Element had such a thing, I suppose it would be called a periodic table?)”
That’s gold, Mark! Gold!
My 2008 Element had a lid that came out of the back that could be converted into a table. The poles to do so were an accessory, though.
I almost voted for the Element just because of that line.
We aim to please.
Yes — He had me at “periodic table”.
I would have liked to go Element, but even if it was stick vs. stick, I’ll still take the clear title and intact body of the VUE. Even the 4-speed auto they paired to the 2.2 starting in 2005 to replace the ill-fated VTi CVT would be acceptable – slow, but it’ll get you there. My dad had an ’05 so equipped and it was fine.
Polymer body panels proved their worth here for sure but even the metal hood and tailgate seem in good shape. The cheap 2000s era GM cloth might merely be stained with water – I mean, probably not, but that was easy to do in all the cars GM put it in at the time. And could likely find a set of leather seats from another VUE, which won’t be any more comfortable but at least clean. (Or a VUE Red Line which the leather/’suede’ inserts but that’s rarer.)
I had a 2004 Saturn L300, and imagine my shock when the passenger seat fabric got stained simply from a car wash attendant placing a wet spray bottle on the seat while driving the car out of the tunnel and into a parking spot. This has been officially recognized as the only time when the sleazy dealer upcharge for Scotchgard would have been worth it…
I remember C&D likened the L’s upholstery in a 2003 test to 1970s United Airlines seat fabric. Definitely a downgrade over pre-facelift L’s which had a decent enough mouse fur-like cloth on most trims.
I’m sure the honda stans will turn the tide here but I’ve had that trim of vue and it is fantastic! Very reliable drive train, and great fuel mileage. Sure the interior will always look grungy, but it will hold up and the green is a fantastic color on these. The Achilles heel here is they chew through wheel bearings like candy, but after the first few times you get good at changing them.
I wanted to pick the Element. I like them. But I can’t. The Vue certainly wins this time. Not only is it in better condition, but it has fewer miles and a lower price.
Sadly, I don’t think that Element is worth the effort of even a half-assed hammer and pry bar repair. Buy the uninspiring but intact Vue and drive it until it dies. If it dies in 6 months, you’ll still come out in better shape than if you had gone to some buy here pay here lot and bought a $3,000 car that will cost you $10,000 over the life of the predatory loan.
Element. I absolutely love those cars and I will always vote Element over a Vue.
With this vote I’m letting Honda know that they need to build a PHEV or EV Element! I will order one immediately if it is announced. I’ll even buy into the bullshit first edition thing if it’s offered. I’m sure there are like 5 others who would do the same. Honda is really dropping the ball for the half dozen of us. Haha.
I had a VUE from the early oughts. Full disclosure: It was the 4 cyl, AWD and CVT. It was fine up until it wasn’t. It’s control module died a slow death. We noticed the car dinging with an annoying frequency but couldn’t find anything else wrong with it. It was diagnosed over the phone with the dealership at 4 o’clock on a Friday as we were driving out of state to trade it in. That estimated 6 hour drive turned into a 9 hour slog without gauges after 30 min and running into a ground blizzard half way there. We called it quits about 60 miles from our destination around midnight. I didn’t discover that the power steering and tailgate button weren’t working until after we lucked into a hotel room and I had to squeeze the pack and play and our bags out of the 1/3 of the rear seat I could fold down (One forward facing carseat I didn’t want to fight with and one of those cargo cages made everything 3x as difficult as it would normally be.)
TLDR: there are 2 things I will never own again 1 is a cargo cage the other is a VUE.
bonus manual trans with the Venerable 2.2 ecotec Gm 4 cylinder. this is two years past the common timing chain tensioner issues, but at this mileage that would be one thing I would have done. other than that and any oil leaks to avoid low oil conditions, this little Vue will be cheap winter beater status for sure.
I vote Vue. Honda may be more reliable, and i would definitely want the Vue with a 3.5 Honda V6, but I would not buy a salvage title car. Except maybe a Jeep wrangle I was about to turn into and offroad only rig.
If you get an ’05 or up of these VUEs, all you have to worry about is that secondary hydraulic cylinder failing in the transmission.
Native Clevelander here. The biggest car issue buying any rust-belt car is going to be, well, rust. I’m honestly surprised the Element is as rust free as it is after going through 15 salty winters.
The plastic panels on the Vue will never rust, making it a no-brainer.
Former owner of an ’07 Vue (V-6, AWD) here. It was a great car and stayed in the family when I moved on.
Yes, the exterior body panels are plastic but the structure is metal, which will rust. And then the vehicle will not pass inspection (where such things are required) and will become unsafe (everywhere). My Vue ended up in the scrapyard solely due to rust.
If Cleveland uses salt on the roads, I would take a good hard look at the undercarriage (phrasing) prior to purchase.
I bet if you pulled the plastic panels, there isn’t much of anything under them.
Fellow clevelander. Rust is the bane of our existence and the reason most of my cars hibernate for 6 months a year.
Saturn. My work buddy’s wife had one for a decade and it was indeed trouble-free apart from a dead CVT.
and this one has the far superior manual trans, so there is that.
If you swapped out the transmissions and the conditions, I’d pick the Honda. But this is a textbook example of why, at this late stage of life, the make and model matter less than the individual vehicle. Sometimes a Dodge Caliber is better than a Toyota RAV4- not often, but sometimes.
I’d have voted for the Element because its quirky but with it being this badly damaged and costing more than the Saturn, I’ll take the slightly less interesting crossover.
Also the fact that it is coming from “TitleTown” did not engender confidence for me.
Back in 2005 I almost bought an Element. If only the dealer has been willing to order what I wanted (5 speed, AWD, ABS). In retrospect I could have gone to another dealer but I was so soured by the experience I held off buying anything. Ended up buying a used Protege5 a year later and really liked it so all was not lost.
So despite the salvage title I’ll almost always vote Element.
WHO is voting for that poor, sad Honda? And why? Is it out of sympathy? Spite?
I did. A VUE has no place in my drive way ever again.
Did you have the 4-cylinder with the CVT?
As an enthusiast I feel as though I have a moral and ethical obligation to choose the Element. It’s just one of those cars that has a wildly dedicated following and for that I must respect it.
Element to rebuild and flip. Saturn to drive ’till it dies.
Won’t be long before the Saturn dies so you won’t have to suffer long
Easy win for the VUE imo. They can get 30 mpg flat if driven conservatively and they routinely pass 300k miles with minimal maintenance. Hard to find anything anynore with those stats and level of utility.