Welcome back! Today we’re looking at a couple of rear-wheel-drive coupes for the same price. Well, actually, I say coupes, but one of them has rear doors, and the other has a retractable hardtop. But apparently you can call anything a coupe these days, so that’s what I’m going with for these two.
Yesterday’s choices were both definitely coupes, not a rear door or a hatchback to be found. And as far as hopped-up economy cars go, they were both pretty cool choices. I’m surprised the Cobalt had such a strong fan section in the comments; I didn’t think those cars were that popular. It was a really close vote, basically a tie, but as of this writing, the Neon is winning by a few votes.
Besides, as you all know, ties around here go to the author, and while I’m intrigued by the idea of the Cobalt SS, I just don’t like that particular one very much. Make it blue or yellow, and closer to stock, and I might have picked it. But I had a Neon coupe that I just loved, even though it was an SOHC engine and an automatic. I couldn’t pass up the chance at a DOHC manual version.
All right. Let’s move the drive wheels to the back, switch the country of manufacture to Japan, and bump up the price just a little, and see what we can find. Five thousand is as high as I like to go for most Showdowns; it seems like a lot, but “cheap” cars aren’t two grand anymore. Then again, fifteen or twenty-year-old cars are a hell of a lot nicer than they used to be, too; I’m constantly surprised by what I can find. I would have thought these would both be more. Let’s see which one is a better value for the price.
2005 Mazda RX-8 – $5,000
Engine/drivetrain: 1.3-liter two-rotor Wankel rotary, six-speed manual, RWD
Location: Hopkins, MN
Odometer reading: 67,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
Mazda wasn’t the first manufacturer to use rotary engines in its cars, of course, but I bet it will be the last. Rotary engines just don’t work all that well, but they are fascinating, and nothing feels or sounds quite like them. This latest iteration of Mazda rotary-powered sports car, the RX-8, has a terrible reputation for unreliability, so much so that RX-8s are common subjects for engine swaps. But to me, that just isn’t right. I mean, you can make an “apple pie” from Ritz crackers, but it just isn’t the same.
This RX-8 still proudly sports its Renesis rotary engine, its two triangular rotors spinning a six-speed manual gearbox just like it should. It has 67,000 miles on the odometer, which would seem low for most other cars, but for an RX-8, that’s getting up there. It runs great, according to the seller, and has been well-maintained. It has a few minor modifications, namely a short-throw shifter and some thicker sway bars. The stock parts are included if you want to put them back.
It is very clean, inside and out, which isn’t surprising given the low mileage. It’s a Minnesota car, which raises some questions about rust, but the seller says it has been “barely driven” during the winter. Probably a good idea anyway; RWD sports coupes like this aren’t great winter cars.
It looks black in the photos, but the seller says it’s actually a very dark green. Also, note the little triangle shape below the rear bumper; Mazda included triangular shapes all over the RX-8. I’m surprised Mazda never had a tie-in deal with Doritos. It seems like a marketing match made in heaven.
2010 Lexus IS250C – $5,000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.5-liter dual overhead cam V6, six-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Irving, TX
Odometer reading: 218,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
When it comes to two-door cars built for pleasure, you usually have to choose between a hardtop and a convertible. Some convertibles offer a removable hardtop for the winter months, but then you have to find a place to store it in the summer and figure out a way to get it on and off in the first place. A retractable hardtop that folds into the trunk is a better solution. Peugeot was the first to do it, back in the 1930s, but Ford was the first to mass-produce such a car, in 1957. The idea fell out of fashion for a long time after that, but in the 2000s and 2010s, it seemed like everybody offered a retractable hardtop convertible, including Lexus.
The IS series is Lexus’s entry-level platform, a rear-wheel-drive compact that is typically seen as a four-door sedan. But from 2010-2015, Lexus offered the IS as a two-door convertible coupe, with a couple of different powertrain options. This IS250C is powered by a 2.5 liter DOHC V6 and a six-speed automatic, with flappy-paddle shifters on the steering wheel so you can shift it manually if you so choose. It runs and drives well, though it does have quite a lot of miles on it. It’s for sale by a dealer, so don’t expect any service records, either. You’ll have to rely on an inspection and assume that a bunch of maintenance has been deferred.
It definitely shows some signs of wear inside. It doesn’t look abused; it just looks like a car with over 200,000 miles on it. The seller says the air conditioning works, and the top goes up and down; as long as the stereo works, what more do you need?
It looks pretty good outside, but again, a little worn. The tires look like they need replacing, and I don’t understand why they didn’t wash it before taking the photos. Yeah, it’s a reasonably cheap car, but a run through the carwash is like ten bucks.
So there you have it: a nice clean example of a potential heartbreaker, or a threadbare but probably indestructible luxury convertible coupe. They’re both a lot of car for five grand. The choice is yours.
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
RX-8, but I am going to be doing some hard negotiating. I have been window shopping RX-8 for a few years so I can dip my toe into the rotary world prior to buying a FD. I have considered a few under the 2k mark and would have a hard time paying any more than that, although for one that seems to be as well maintained as that one I would likely up the premium a bit…not 5k though. I think I could talk them down some.
It’s the RX-8 for me. I always liked the way they looked.
My father in law daily drove one (also a manual) on a horrific Northern Virginia commute for years until the engine lost compression as they do. He wasn’t much of a maintenance guy so that car was just about the worst option for his circumstances. And I can confirm it was terrible in the snow. Afterwards he bought base model, manual Mazda 3 which took the abuse of that commute much better and is still running today.
I think I am firmly in the camp of “if I buy a toy, it better have a top that goes down”. I’m not taking the hardtop car to the track or anything. Just cruising on weekends.
So I’ll take the Lexus, get some old school sheep seat covers, find a replacement for the center console lid, and just cruise around. Looks like make the suspension is a little wonky? Maybe I just haven’t seen one of these in a while.
I haven’t done the convertible thing in my life, so a $5,000 trial balloon to actually see how much I’d use it (and like it) with Toyota mechanical robustness seems to be the way today. With a hardtop too, so it’ll stand up to winter even if parked outside. Even with an automatic.
I haven’t done the rotary thing either, but have minimal desire to given the supercar-like upkeep for the engine. They are awesome and unique engines, but just too fussy. It needs the right owner. I am not that owner, even with the six-speed.
If the convertible passes the test, maybe Miata is the answer using the cash I get from selling the Lexus. If it doesn’t maybe Miata is not the answer.
Good job at the Flip the script plan for today. As most car people would say a Tarted up Toyota is always better than the raging Dorito….but the Stealership and over 200K miles and only these two choices definitely steal the thunder from the Lexus.
I guess I would go RX8. they were intriguing new and the concerns about rotary longevity were proven to still be an issue even though Mazda said they had all that licked by this time. I imagine I would just start to be a cars and coffee guy until it started smoking excessively.
I thought I was coming here to vote for the Lexus but ended up choosing the Mazda instead.
That RX-8 looks really well taken care of, and I’d rather gamble on that for a fun car than a grubby Lexus hardtop convertible. It’s not that I’m not scared of it, but at least it has the potential to exceed my expectations at 5k. Maybe it’ll work out. I just don’t see a situation in which the Lexus is bringing me 5k of fun.
I actually kind of dug the idea of Hardtop Convertibles, that was the one slight bonus here for that thing, but then I realize, it is just a more expensive repair option when they fail and the leaking is still a thing regardless.
If I chose a beat up Lexus hardtop convertible over a clean RX-8, and the Lexus ended up costing me all sorts of money because of the hardtop, I would respond with “I deserve this”.
Started out thinking school car for daughter vs. work car for wife. I’m pretty sure my wife would just keep driving her ’95 Escort to work if she saw that front seat pic of the Lexus, so the daughter is going to be quite happy with the fresh-looking RX8 as a graduation present.
My first instinct was that if an IS convertible was that cheap, you must be able to get a G37 convertible for similar money (and a whole lot more power, and a still generally reliable car), but the cheapest G37 on AutoTrader is $7500 (albeit with 160k rather than well over 200). So, at $5k, it looks kind of reasonable, but still, it’s very much a cruiser (a bunch heavier than the sedan, still the small engine and automatic), and both the IS convertible and RC feel like unnecessary takes on the IS sedan.
On the other hand, I love the RX-8, want one, and that looks like the right kind of RX-8 to buy. It’d be a second car anyhow, if it’s out of commission for an engine rebuild for a couple weeks, that’s not such a big deal.
Just based on the seats, I don’t want to sit in that Lexus, even after I clean it I’ll always know how gross it was….
I dunno, the Lexus is probably the right choice but I’m not a person known for making reasonable automotive decisions.
I say Rx8, drive it for as far as the rotary will take you and plan for the eventual rotary failure. Then swap the engine of your choice. Probably a turbo k24.
LS1 or K24 Turbo? Which makes more HP and is more reliable?
K24 turbo to me just seems to fit better with the vibe of the Rx8, no idea why. Plus I already have an LS swapped vehicle!
This is the correct answer. Might even get into that rotary and rebuild it before it blows up rather than let it explode and swap it.
Clean and seemingly well cared for low mile enthusiast car with a dash of practicality and a heaping helping of baddass, or dental hygienist special? How is this a comparison?
Saw an RX-8 in the wild last week and it looked great. This one does too. Do the maintenance you’re supposed to, keep running it, and see what happens. I had a 71 Vega go 125k miles without any engine issues before rust finally killed it. Sometimes you just get lucky 🙂
I’ve always liked the RX-8 (not as much as the RX-7 mind you), plus I already have a hardtop convertible (Miata PRHT), so I kept it in the family and went with the spinning Doritos.
The Genesis Coupe I drove through 8 Canadian winters would disagree with your RWD coupe comment. I still miss that car specifically for winter driving.
Anyways, I have a lot of experience with RX-8s and the 1st gen is nothing to write home about, so I’ll take the drop top.
I’m shocked a short-throw shifter was installed for the RX-8. It already had a super short throw, and a very decent one at that. That seller’s hands must be TINY!
RX-8 all day because that color is excellent and it looks well taken care of. Mom had one and only traded it in because the gas mileage sucked.
I’ve always thought the Rx-8 looked like fun but why is Armus lurking behind the front fenders in those photos? Is this car the skin of evil? Will it be detrimental to any friends named Tasha? I just can’t trust it…I guess I’ll take the dirty Lexus.
Minor correction, RWD are the BEST winter cars. For fun.
I’m bland enough that a small-engined variant of a cruiser Lexus suits my personality, but I voted RX-8 instead. I like the concept and the proportions, and I hope to keep the rotary spinning until I can swap in a compact electric motor and a battery that packs 150 kWh into a form factor that matches the size and weight of a Duracell AA.
I’m going RX8, once the Dorito’s stop spinning, you can slide in a LS V8.
These are both toys, and the Mazda is a better toy. It even becomes a building toy after sufficient time.
I came into this thinking “oh, easy win for the Lexus, no contest” but ended up voting for the Mazda. Gimme the clean weirdo. Maybe if I was just starting a career as a Realtor I’d take the Lexus.
I resent the opinion that rotaries are inherently unreliable. They are not piston engines and just cannot be treated as such. The engines blow so often because people expect them to go 3k miles without ever looking at the oil and that’s just not the case. Treat it more like a 2 stroke that needs constant attention to the oil and they tend to do pretty well. They’re no K20 that’s going to go 200k without ever needing anything, but they can be reliable if not treated like a piston engine. I have seen 150k on several RX-8s with original engine because they were properly taken care of.
Oh and I have no interest in the IS with an auto. I would take the 250 with a manual, or the 350 with an auto, but this is the worst of both worlds and way too many miles for my liking.
I don’t have any experience with a 2 stroke or a rotary engine, what do you mean by “constant attention” in regards to the oil? Are you checking the dipstick every time you get gas or just like once or twice a month? How often are you actually changing the oil?
Checking oil every time you get gas, and oil changes are normal, 3-5k. I do not have an rotary, but my FIL did, and after he had the engine replaced under warranty, he actually learned what he was supposed to be doing, and the next engine lasted until he sold it. I don’t remember the mileage or anything, but when treated properly it never gave him issues and that’s the story I hear from most people.
You don’t have to check it every time you get gas… Add a quart every 1K miles. 3K miles oil changes are still the rule on rotaries, but you get to use the cheap oil. Series 2 were quite reliable. Totally different engine with just the rotors and e-shaft carrying through pretty much. I knew a guy with an FC RX-7 that had 200K on what truly appeared to be the original engine. Understanding the needs and tending to them make for a happy rotary experience.
Mazda sold these as daily drivers (“it’s a sport coupe but more practical b/c check out the crazy rear doors!”), and I think the mindset that implied is what hurt them – by the ’00s, “daily driver” meant Toyota Camry style set-it-and-forget-it reliability to most people.
Right and that’s where they screwed up. They did not educate owners properly, and it ruined the rep irreparably.
Or it’s where they smacked a home run. My 4yo can ride in my RX-8, and it’s her favorite car. She gets so excited every time we take it out. Bright future.
Oh no I agree it’s a fantastic car, and I love them, I mean they screwed up by trying to convince the average joe that it was a daily driver that could be treated like a corolla and be just fine. They are higher maintenance, and you have to keep the oil topped up and for most people, that’s something they didn’t understand which led to a lot of blown engines. Had they taken the time to educate people, they likely would have sold less, but the reputation of it being unreliable wouldn’t have happened.
Another part of the problem was that the Miata was Corolla-reliable, so buyers assumed the RX-8 would be, too.
As much as I love the RX-8, I don’t think I’ll ever own one. And I love that blue on the Lexus!
Tough call. The RX8 is going to be more fun, whether you’re going to the store or on a back road. You have to wring out that rotary and it likes redline, so that’s fun. What’s not fun is when stuff breaks, which will happen. I believe around 80k miles is when you have to start worrying about apex seals.
Now before RX fans kill me about “not understanding” the rotary engine and “how easy they are to work on”, it’s a goofball engine that’s only kept alive by a bunch of superfans. Is it easier to work on? Sure, if you remove it from the car. Unlike Diesel engines, rotaries don’t offer a better option beyond driver experience, and even then is it that much better?
The IS250C is built on a decent chassis, the IS with the V6 is a competent drive. However, I’ve always found them to be kind of boring, maybe it’s because of the Toyota roots? Everything feels like it’s designed to just be a cheaper Mercedes/BMW without the fizz one experiences in those cars. Maybe it’s the slushbox, hard to say.
The convertible will just add weight, complexity, and make a mundane experience only slightly better thanks to the wind blowing through your hair.
So give me the RX8. When the motor blows, I’ll buy a LS Swap kit and have a better handling version of the 4th Gen Camaro.
If that’s your plan, why not just start with a roller for less than half the price?
I’ll have fun beating up the engine and when it’s done, I’ll make a desk clock out of one of the rotors.
Convertibles almost always get my vote