Few people predicted the pandemic and how, via supply chain shortages, global vehicle production would crater. The only thing predictable about the car market, really, is how it always ends up harming poor people. There’s a new report out on aging cars and it’s good news for mechanics but bad news for people who need a car to work.
Plus, we check out the inevitable Tesla lawsuit, the unionization of robotaxi firms, and the sudden increase in battery capacity in the United States.
A Double Whammy For Poor Car Owners
It’s now a matter of conventional wisdom that automakers shifted their production to more expensive models during the pandemic, causing prices to go up. At the same time, limited inventory meant that deals for new cars were hard to come by for budget conscious buyers. Even with lower interest rates, this meant that many buyers with limited incomes or poor credit were forced to either stay out of the market or take on longer loan payments (the average new vehicle loan for someone with a 500-600 credit score is about 74 months).
And what about used cars? Used car prices also increased dramatically during the pandemic (about 40% higher than pre-pandemic levels). Unsurprisingly, this means that the average age of a car on the road has reached about 12.5 years, an all-time record. As mentioned yesterday, it’s now a better time to buy a new car and deals are finally out there, though higher interest rates are going to still make it difficult for some to buy anything, new or used.
There’s a nice report out from S&P Global Mobility that addresses how this presents a big upside for mechanics:
Two years of short supply of new vehicles has driven consumers into the used-car market. Now, there could be a counterintuitive shift: Surging new-vehicle supply could further boost expansion of the used-vehicle fleet, bringing more high-mileage vehicles into service bays.
How is this possible? The aging car parc has already expanded the repair business sweet spot, which we consider as vehicles from six to 11 years old. Now 12- and 13-year-old vehicles are becoming a bigger part of the business – even though they were originally sold during the slow-sales years of the Great Recession.
None of this is surprising to anyone paying even limited attention. It’s also not surprising that cars that are over a decade old are now new enough that they’re likely to contain more sensors and be more expensive to fix than older vehicles.
Working class people taking it on the chin is sort of a tradition. Here’s where it gets super fun, though, as pointed out by S&P Global Mobility:
In addition, drivers of older, lower-priced, out-of-warranty vehicles are likely to drive more miles, because they may have jobs without a work-from-home option. During the pandemic years, vehicles from six to 13 years old – the new aftermarket sweet spot – will increase their share of annual miles traveled, outstripping both vehicles zero to 5-years-old and 14-years-plus, according to S&P Global Mobility projections.
The bolding is mine and it’s another obvious, but extremely important point. If you’re a working class person with a job that cannot be done from home you have to keep putting miles on your car. A Pew Research study from early in the pandemic found that 76% of lower income people couldn’t do their work from home, as opposed to just 44% of upper income individuals.
I think it’s plausible that, barring some huge economic upheaval, carmakers will start producing more affordable models and those will eventually become available as used cars, but that’s not going to be for some time. Until then, lower income individuals will have to contend with putting more and more miles on vehicles that are increasingly complex and expensive to fix.
Cruise Probably Becomes The First Firm To Unionize
I’m going to do this backwards and start with a sentence that made me laugh this morning, courtesy of this Reuters report on GM’s self-driving firm Cruise:
Reuters could not definitively determine if these are the driverless car industry’s first union agreements.
Obviously, it’s not the driverless cars themselves that are being unionized but the staff being used to maintain them, though that leads to the other funny note in this piece, calling the agreement:
…[A] significant milestone as unions and robotaxi firms have historically been at odds.
LOL. I mean, yes, of course. Automated systems present a real threat to organized labor and, in the absence of some sort of Universal Basic Income-type system, it’s not clear what happens if we automate everything. The deal is with the IBEW and SEIU and will cover “dozens” of workers.
Tesla Hit With A Class Action Lawsuit Over Range
Like clockwork, the exclusive report from Reuters that Tesla created an entire department to basically ignore people who complained about the potentially overly optimistic range estimates of their cars has resulted in class action lawsuit in California. Since Reuters broke the news, let’s let Reuters chime in here as well:
The lawsuit alleges Tesla breached vehicle warranties and engaged in fraud and unfair competition.
“Put simply, Tesla has a duty to deliver a product that performs as advertised,” Adam A. Edwards, an attorney at Milberg Coleman Bryson Phillips Grossman, the firm representing Tesla owners in the lawsuit, said in a statement.
The lawsuit’s three plaintiffs cite occasions when their Teslas didn’t achieve close to their advertised ranges and said they had complained to the company without success.
It’ll be interesting to see how much momentum this gains. Many of the earliest Tesla adopters were die hards who have a serious attachment to the firm, but now Tesla is just a car company that makes a lot of fairly affordable EVs.
How Much Battery Capacity Do We Actually Need?
As far as successful legislation goes, the constant news about automakers and suppliers rushing to build battery plants in North America indicates to me that the Inflation Reduction Act has been a success. The big question, though, is how much capacity do we really need?
I ask this because there are two big pieces of news again this week. First, from Automotive News is the fact that LG Energy Solutions says the Korean company wants to build more than 300 gigawatt-hours of production capacity by 2025. That’s a lot. From the story:
LG Energy Solution has the most gigawatt-hour capacity among EV battery plants in North America that have been announced, are under construction or are operational, according to Wood Mackenzie, an energy research and consulting firm. Three hundred gigawatt-hours would be enough to supply batteries for 3 million to 6 million EVs, depending on their size and configuration, according to data from the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.
For comparison, in 2022 about 750,000 new EVs were registered.
We’re also learning this week that a joint venture between Stellantis and Mercedes called Automotive Cells Co. (it worked so well last time!) is considering building a battery plant in Canada. Here’s some detail The Detroit News:
Mark Stewart, Stellantis’ chief operating officer in North America, said in October that Stellantis could need as many as four battery plants in North America by 2030 to achieve its goal of having at least half of its U.S. passenger car and light-duty pickup sales be all-electric. Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares previously suggested ACC could expand to North America.
The train has left the station and, while some automakers like Ford are starting to consider more hybrids in the mix, it seems like most automakers are trying to shift to EVs as fast as possible.
The Big Question
How is is your daily driver? How long do you expect to keep it? How many miles does it have on it?
Photos: Tesla, Skoda, Ford, Cruise
My daily is a 2017 Mazda3 with just under 73,000 miles. I plan to keep it for at least 6 more years, which will be right around the time my daughter starts driving. Then my wife and I can decide which car becomes hers between the Mazda and my wife’s 2018 Accord. She works from home now and only has 50,000 miles on her car.
My all-weather DD is a ’12 MKZ (70k) and for the non-snow months I use the ’06 Z06 (55k) quite often. I have no plans on replacing either for quite some time. Parts are still easy to find so they’ll be repairable for a long time. There’s other project cars that will get out occasionally but are usually in some state of brokenness so hardly any miles.
My job has gone full WFH so they don’t get many miles these days and I’ve been considering switching to using a bike (electric or burger-powered) to do most shopping so they might get even less.
“The big question, though, is how much capacity do we really need?”
A LOT.
Its not just for cars but for fixed energy storage systems( home, industrial, charging stations etc). Gravity storage solutions are nowhere near as flexible as batteries and hydrogen is way too lossy. Some trains will also benefit from batteries to span gaps in electrical coverage.
New batteries will also be needed to replace older worn out ones and maybe even retrofit older ICE guzzlers.
That’s on top of all the batteries needed to manufacture all the new cars.
If anything we need even more capacity.
Annoyingly, pretty much NONE of the electric cars on the market can be used to power a home during a grid-down situation. We’re cranking out 100kWh batteries for 4-ton SUVs save trucks, but they can’t run your dishwasher or refrigerator during a power outage. It is moronic.
I thought a killer feature of the Lightning was vehicle-to-home power, is that vaporware?
Cars maybe not. The Ford lightning F150 can power a house for up to three days. The Nissan Leaf has the tech but for now is limited to commercial loads.
https://www.cars.com/articles/whats-bidirectional-charging-and-which-evs-offer-it-457608/
There is a balancing act needed where buying one battery to do both transport and home backup loads makes some sense, instead of two that aren’t used all the time, but also letting utilities off the hook by making consumers buy the battery that serves as grid stabilization and then depreciate it with transport is a bad deal
Why do you think gravity storage (and are you including pumped hydro in this description) is nowhere near as flexible? Pumped hydro is already in pretty widespread use at least in areas where there is some form of existing hydroelectric power, is much, much cheaper and safer than batteries, and is considerably more environmentally friendly since it heavily utilizes already existing infrastructure, and has the same response time to grid loads as the hydroelectric plant that is being used.
First you have to have water. Then you have to have a sufficient difference in level that can be easily utilized. Last, you need it fairly close to the area needing the power to limit transmission loss. Unfortunately, it won’t scale.
Because a $8500 6.5 kWh Power wall 2 in the garage is a lot easier and cheaper than a 16m high 150,000 L water tower, ground level holding tank and connecting pump/Pelton wheel in the backyard.
My DD is the 2018 BRZ I bought after Harvey took away my WRX hatch. I guess I’m driving it until Subaru brings back the WRX hatch, or until the GR Corolla comes down to reasonable prices, or until Tesla builds the Bishop’s Model2.
My daily driver until recently was a 2004 Toyota Tundra with >300,000 miles on it. My son is now driving it (I expect it will easily hit 500k miles) and I drive a 2017 FIAT 500e with 26,000 miles on it. For longer trips I’m leasing a Polestar 2 with 6,000 miles on it. My wife and I work from home so our driving is all grocery-getting and vacations.
We want to keep the 500e forever, but we’ll see how long it lasts. It’s just such a joy to drive! The Polestar will go back to the company after the lease is up and we’ll see what other EV options are available at that time.
So far, I don’t have a need to replace either of the proper DD’s in the fleet – my wife’s 2006 Subaru Outback (2.5, auto, 140k-ish miles) or my 2012 Mazda 5 (2.5, manual, 135k-ish). Both still run well but don’t get a ton of use – the Subaru is really just used around town so the mileage per year is minimal, while the Mazda gets used for my ~100 mile round-trip commute on days I need to go in, and usually 3ish road trips/year for camping, visiting family & friends etc, so that racks up more miles.
Ideally, I’d like to replace both eventually with a PHEV minivan that could be used for both purposes, with the times that we both need a car simultaneously being filled by either the RX-7 or RX-8. This probably won’t happen for a few years though, based on new car prices and the condition of both our existing DDs.
I daily a ’17 Mazda6 MT with about 51k miles (replaced my ’13 BRZ, which I loved initially but had some annoying first year problems). WFH so trips are mostly short. I keep a close eye on the market to see what’s out there, but I just can’t find anything that gets me exited in the range I’m willing to spend. Hopefully the Skyactiv 2.5 proves to be durable in the long run.
Driving a 2012 Toyota FJ Cruiser with 178K miles and going strong. Paid off years ago. Bronco (and Defender) looks interesting, but still too much money when optioned. Guess I will be driving this beast until it dies (or rusts out).
As a 4Runner owner, I fear rust much more than age or mileage.
I have co daily drivers.
2016 Leaf – 72,000 miles. Range is around 80 miles in town. I bought it when I had a lengthy commute. I no longer have the long commute and only drive the Leaf ~5,000 miles per year, but I see no reason to get rid of it since it is worth very little (maybe $4,000) and is cheap to insure.
2021 F250 – 46,000 miles. I use this for long trips as well as occasional towing and hauling. I don’t need a truck with this capacity, but I bought it because I have always wanted a large diesel truck for some reason. I intend for this to be the last ICE vehicle I will ever buy for transportation (i.e. I’ll keep driving my classic vehicles for fun). How long I keep it depends on how quickly EV technology advances. I would also consider trading this in for a PHEV pickup, as long as it could tow 5,000 lbs and had an EV only range of 40+ miles.
My daily driver isn’t really representative of the cars I usually have, because I inherited it; it’s newer and nicer than anything I would buy for myself: a ten year old Chrysler 300 with 65,000 miles on it. 7000 of those have been added by me in the last six months, driving it up here from Las Vegas and commuting 50 miles a day. I plan to keep it as long as I can; if I run it up to 150k and stuff starts going wrong, I’ll have to assess the situation then.
My wife’s car, just purchased last month, is more typical for us: a 19 year old GMC Yukon, in fantastic shape, but with 188,000 miles on it already. But she has a lot shorter commute than I do. If that one makes it to 250k, I’ll be happy.
What’s your take on the new 20k interval synthetic oils?
I wanted to get rid of my daily driver. However, it has a new engine and transmission in it thanks to Kia’s warranty. With only 80K miles on it, I’m going to live with the missing clear coat and keep it until car prices and interest rates come down. Heck I might even get it painted and keep it even longer
I drive maybe 4,000 miles a year. And I own several cars, so I found the secret to longevity is to never drive your cars. My main whip is a 2003 Mercedes Benz E320 wagon at 189,000 miles. It’s given me no reason to get rid of it. Frankly it’s hella useful and getting increasingly harder to replace with the death of wagons. Probably going to keep that one around for a few more years. Currently the one on the chopping block is 5.9 tow rig/ farm truck that’s been chugging towards death. With the price of used diesel truck right now, that’s been a harder task then anticipated.
“Frankly it’s hella useful and getting increasingly harder to replace with the death of wagons”
You think that’s hard? Try finding a sliding door replacement for a Mazda 5 microvan. especially one with a 6MT.
My daily driver is a 2019 Kia Niro PHEV with around 40,000 miles. My pickup is a 2002 Silverado with 165,000. I’d love to replace them both soon (probably with one vehicle), but it’s not a pressing need.
Modern auto journalism:
I mean, it’s a pretty good joke, but I’d say most of modern automotive journalism doesn’t seem to concern itself as much with vehicle affordability. At least not the let’s-drive-expensive-cars-all-the-time set.
It might have been a cheap shot on my part but I couldn’t ignore the juxtaposition of $100,000 Land Cruisers with home cobbling 10 year old shitboxes. Frankly, I am quite surprised by the sheer uncool factor of most of people’s daily drivers on an enthusiast car site. Or maybe my “cool” meter swings more Jason than David.
Surely you understand a large number of people either have children and/or live in a place where daily driving a Miata 12 months a year is foolhardy if not dangerous?
I mean I’d drive the Viper every day if I was single and lived where there wasn’t winter, but life has a way of upsetting the best plans.
I have been daily driving a Miata for 33 years. It won’t haul children but it will handle just about anything else. And yes, I appreciate the utility of a minivan, SUV, or a nice sedan. That’s why my wife drives one.
Bingo – not everyone can manage to DD a 30 year old 2 seat convertible for many reasons, including elderly family or kids, a long commute, an absolute need to get to work at a specific time regardless of weather, storage space for a week of groceries for a family of 4, work or leisure-related transportation of larger objects or ground clearance, just to state a few.
Should people in this situation be disqualified from being considered car enthusiasts?
An observation is not necessarily a judgment. I am constantly trying to reevaluate my perception of the world based on new information. Being surprised simply means that I didn’t understand.
I’d argue that calling them uncool is a judgement, but as long as you’re trying to understand… 🙂
I expressed it was my own personal “cool-meter”. YMMV.
I think part of the reason we all come to this specific site, and comment, is that we see the cool in the uncool cars that most people drive. I’m more stoked to see that somebody is using a Nissan Leaf for the exact purpose it was built or keeping a 2002 Mazda going strong than somebody DDing a Bentley.
I remember as a kid riding in my dad’s 912E (which he semi-DDed), any time you passed another Porsche the drivers would lift a hand and do a subtle little wave to each other. Now I do that whenever I see another person driving a Volt. They don’t know why I’m waving to them, but I do.
I also celebrate the weird and unusual. A first gen Leaf has always been both and today I would marvel at seeing one still on use. That was why I was surprised at the number of normal daily drivers. Maybe all these folks have a Citroen as their weekend car. Or maybe they just appreciate those that do.
I’m pleasantly surprised to hear some people find a first-generation Leaf at least somewhat interesting. I think of mine as boring, but I have daily driven it for over 4 years so I see it as a cheap commuter car. It honestly never occurred to me that others may view it differently.
I love my Leaf, even if it is outdated tech. I’m planning to drive mine as long as possible.
I was looking at an Austin America locally the other day. And started thinking about how fun it might be to do a custom build, but in the serious commuter vein. A little research in to hybrids led me to find that honda offered a manual hybrid civic in the early 2000s. Honda to “mini” swaps are super common, so it seems like it would be a super fun, “boring” commuter car to build. I won’t, but it was fun to investigate.
About normie cars…
I’ve been a all things mechanical & transportation enthusiast as long as I can remember. Growing up I loved a lot of European sports cars especially. I remember looking at the classified > auto section every weekend + the paper weekly? “auto trader” magazines that used to be common in grocery & convenience stores. In particular I loved the looks of the vw karhman ghia, MG A, triumph tr4, tr6, bugeyed sprite, MG B, jaguar e-type, lotus’, original minis, Morris minors, Citroën 2cv, DS, tatra t77, t87, BMW 2002, e30 325, Porsche 356, 911, 912, 914, 924, 944, 928, 968 etc…
My 1st car I bought for I think $1k when I was 14 with money I made from a paper route was a 1978 Triumph tr7, which was followed by an 84 (mk1) vw (rabbit/golf) GTI, then a 90′ vw jetta gli, then 98′ jetta tdi
Then I had kids and my wife’s Ford contour was traded in for a Toyota sienna xls as a reliable family hauler & fantasticly comfortable road trip king now with 224k miles on it.
When my tdi was at the end of its life (rust sadly took too much of a toll) at 300k miles I found a 3rd gen prius plug in as a dd replacement; I’ve been pleasantly surprised how much fun I’ve had driving it too (now with 214k miles on it).
My ‘fun car” is a 74’ MG B GT that was my father’s and will be in the family certainly as long as I’m alive & hopefully for many years after!
Long story short, as much as I love cars, for me at least, the DDs have to serve a practical purpose 1st.
Having more than 2 cars for any couple I think can be challenging not only bc of costs (purchase, fuel, insurance, routine maintenance), but simply bc of how much space they take up. Only (common’ish) personal possessions that take up more space of course being boats, motorhomes, planes & horses.
As such getting to 3 cars or +3 cars means finding some place to store them the +99% of their existence when they are not being used.
Even if you have a 3 car garage (and you want them protected from the elements) means getting lifts (if your garage has the ceiling height) or an additional garage / pole barn on your property or a paying for some type of storage. Then of course there is the (mechanical) care and feeding (beyond routine maintenance, such as rust repair, repaint, electrical harness replacement, all soft mounts replacements (engine, trans, suspension) etc…to make sure they continue to run and have some chance at some level of reliability. This is a good part of the fun of seeing ‘survivor cars’ that may still have all original paint after anything over 20 years from new still being used & looked after by their owner. Doing so often is about the person’s love for that car or sentimental reasons beyond finances and logic bc as much as I think we like to think we’re logical, we’re really not. We’re mostly emotional beings that use logic to justify our emotions/feelings
“I’m more stoked to see that somebody is using a Nissan Leaf for the exact purpose it was built”
For me its seeing a truck actually being used for truck things. A Home Depot run for a box of screws doesn’t count.
Cool cars usually don’t have great utility. I’ll drive my Colorado to haul the kids, lumber, and boat. That’s the DD. Get that stuff done.
My Saturn Sky Redline and ZR1 Corvette are reserved for the moments in between.
No sense making DD duty take longer for the sake of trying to do it all with a 1982 VW Rabbit or something.
I’d love to have a cool car. But, like many people here, I have to consider practicality. When I got my Niro, getting a PHEV was somewhat of a cool factor (to me), while also allowing me to commute on electric without another vehicle for longer trips. And the ventilated seats were both a metaphorical and literal cool factor. I picked up a pickup because that utility is helpful to me. With those, I have no room for a fun vehicle. If I sell them both and get a more efficient pickup, I’ll finally have the space for something more fun, but it’ll probably be a bit before I can justify the purchase.
For now, I can come here and find a community that enjoys cars and also largely accepts that people have different types of enthusiasm and life circumstances. I think that part of what you’re seeing is the result of that acceptance. People don’t need to have a tuner car or an offroad machine or whatever else here, so they feel free to talk about their “uncool” cars.
Also, this is a site with a lot more van enthusiasts than most automotive sites, which skews what people think of as cool, too. Seems like there are a lot of people who value utility here.
My Leaf is extra boring, but it is such a drama free vehicle that I often prefer it over more interesting vehicles. You just get behind the wheel, press a button, and drive away. There is no noise, no excess heat, no annoying vibrations, no worrying about whether it will start or overheat, etc. It is also comfortable and the AC and radio work.
Sometimes a car is just about transportation. Boring cars are often the best transportation appliances.
What DD vehicles were you expecting to be common amongst this crowd? I’m just curious what falls inside your cool meter.
My previous daily driver was a 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 with 130K miles, but I hardly drive it now and it just sits most of the time, plus it’s kinda thirsty at the pump and being an early direct injected turbo car I’m concerned it’s a bit of a ticking time bomb, so it’s going on Cars and Bids next week.
Replaced it with a 2015 Mazda 3 2.slow with 82K miles. I wanted a “simpler” car and one that gets reasonable MPGs since all of the other cars in my fleet are gas guzzlers.
Mine: 2008 Pontiac G6 GT convertible. 115k miles. I don’t see myself replacing it in the next 2 years, at least.
Wife: 2018 Infiniti QX30. 65k miles. She works from home now, so I see this being her car for a while.
The kids have a 2016 Equinox, a 2010 Sonic hatchback, and a 2013 Fiat 500. I don’t think any of those will be replaced any time soon, either.
2001 v70 t5 manual. 260k, ~20-25k/yr. Needs to nestle its way into my garage for its quarter million mile service (drivetrain/subframes, everything out! replace nearly all old rubber mounts and seals, clean it all, possibly give it a fresh(er) interior, quaife lsd, minor changes and upgrades to prepare it for its next trip to the moon. Should take about a year.
2006 xc90 also 5cyl. 230k, ~20-25k/yr. Needs angle gear resealed and collar sleeve installed and a transmission flush.
Off to
bedthe garage2008 cx-9 150k miles. Looking to replace with smaller hybrid in next 6 months.
2011 Tiguan 100k miles. Looking to replace in next year for ev.
1995 XJ Cherokee rhd, 377500 miles; 132 miles added 6 days a week. As a rural mail carrier it’s hands down the best vehicle for the job, I plan on using it until I can’t buy or fananagle parts anymore. Although if someone wanted to give me a diesel Hiace, I would love to try one for a while.
2014 Mazda3 hatchback with 140k miles on the clock. I bought it new, fully-loaded, so it has automatic braking and radar cruise control–that’s all the automation I want for now. Mechanically fine, but it’s been a scratch and dent magnet in the city. Seriously considering pumping some money into fixing the outside and pushing the car until it literally falls apart, Blues Brothers-style.
2000 Toyota Altezza
2002 Mazda Roadster
No plans on replacing either with a modern disposable instead.
Literally my dream garage but add a 94 aristo in there!
2013 ex-rental Chevy Sonic, 137,000 miles. I drive less than most, and am more permissive of old-car weirdness, so I don’t expect to have to replace it anytime soon. I do most of the regular maintenance and can youtube weird fixes (and use public transportation if I strand myself on a repair) which makes it easier to hang on to it for a while. I cringe at how much I paid for the thing in the worst part of the Pandemic price curve (divorce forced the decision), but I don’t need anything fancy, and it has not left me stranded in over two years. Maybe once I crest 200k miles I can think about something else, but that should take me a while.
Me – summer – 2016 Chevy SS 27,000 miles. No plans to replace it as I can’t get anything like it anymore.
Me – winter – 2019 F350 28,000 miles. No plans to replace it as a new one wouldn’t do anything better than what I have.
Wife – 2020 Sienna 58,000 miles. No plans to replace it because I expect to get 300,000 miles out of it.
Depending on what the situation looks like when the last ICE-only models start being discontinued, I may swoop in and preemptively replace the truck or van with something reasonably equivalent while I still can. If real world 4 season 500+ mile EVs are commonplace and reasonably priced by then, this wouldn’t be necessary. If we are forced to make do with $60-80,000 “300 mile” EVs like we have now, I’ll be sticking with gas as far into the future as possible.
I think in permissive environments E-bikes will solve some of this transportation related pain. Households will opt for one vehicle and one e-bike to solve their needs.
My retired dad who has a model 3 tesla bought an E-bike a couple of years ago and the miles on the tesla are way down in the summer because all the grocery store runs etc are done on the ebike with the panniers instead of the tesla.
I wouldn’t want to have to buy food for a 4-person family on a bicycle, electric or not. Heck, even buying a case of beer for my single-guy household would be cumbersome.
I have seen some cool tricycles though, front half bicycle, back half basically two wheels screwed onto a box and with an electric assist motor. Those would have the space to transport a case of beer and food for a couple of days and be a lot more stable with all the added weight, too. Plus as a trike they’re a lot more suited to older people who might not have the best sense of balance and/or coordination anymore.
Been trying to badger my parents into buying one, my dad could use some exercise but he’s going on 70 now and I’d be uncomfortable seeing him on a bicycle tbh. A fall at that age might turn out badly.
Yeah I am not advocating getting rid of cars altogether. I assume most will keep a vehicle for like costco, weekend grocery runs but if you look at most shopping patterns – folks will run to the store for like one or two things mid week. Those runs are perfect for an ebike. I make liquor store runs to get a twelver and bag of ice all the time on my pedal bike. Bags on the side would make it a bit more ideal than the backpack though.
“Bags on the side would make it a bit more ideal than the backpack though.”
I got a pair of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NX9WYJB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
They allow one to strap heavy, bulky items like sacks of dog food and suitcases to the rear rack. They’re not perfect (hooks instead of Velcro would have been better) but at least they’re cheap and store easily.
There are also backpacks that convert into panniers. I haven’t tried them so I don’t know how comfortable they are. I just tie my backpack to my rack with bungee cords.
You can also make hard sided, covered panniers out of rectangular kitty litter buckets or pick up a set of wire baskets pretty cheaply. For bigger hauls I recommend a trailer which usually runs between $50-$100.
You can carry quite a bit on a bike trailer provided the store isn’t too far away, you’re not loading up at Costco and that distance is reasonably flat and bike friendly. As a bonus the trailer makes a convenient shopping cart too.
FWIW my 70+ FIL was gifted a non E Schwinn trike but we found it dangerously tippy. One’s instinct is to lean into a turn which you can’t do on a trike. A trike with the single wheel in the back might be more stable but definitely try before you buy and anticipate a relearning curve.
Good to know, thank you.
Luckily my area is *very* flat. The highest (natural) point within 90 minutes’ driving distance is a sand dune that is about 25 meters (± 80ft ) high. So lots of cyclists and ok-ish bike infrastructure.
I live close to the grocery stores (1-2miles) I live in mn where it’s flat. I go once on the weekend with a car but try to make the short little trips for things I’ve forgot, missed, crave with the bike. Next year MN is offering a rebate to encourage e-bikes and I am going to try and get a bigger one with it racks/basket so I can commute to work in the summer and do weekend grocery store/target runs. Maybe like a radwagon.
It would be a long 20 mile one way trip to the store on an ebike. Groceries for a family of five, with 2 teens, would be difficult to fit too.
The average american travels less than five miles to their grocery store. Sounds like it might not fit for your needs but it is a viable option for many.
Perfect use case for an old LEAF though.
That’s a great idea in theory, but the infrastructure in the USA is almost purposely hostile to cyclists. People may live close to their necessities as the crow flies, but a e-bike will not get you far on high speed, multilane roads with no bike lanes.
Combining an e-bike with public transport solves the last mile problem. Ride your bike from home, toss it on the train or bus for the long haul, then zoom from the station or stop to wherever you need to go.
I handed down my old e-bike to my son so he can use it for college, he has no interest in getting a driver’s license.
Yes, that would be great, assuming we expand public transit and accommodate bicycles in those (and most) areas. Which we could and should do.
I mean I guess that would work amazing assuming:
A: there’s a train station near where you live / where you’re going
B: it never rains
C: it never snows
D: you never need to carry anything larger than a backpack
I think most folks will still have at least one car per household. I live in MN so its definitely less than half a year solution. That said putting half as many miles on a car should in theory mean they last twice as long provided rust doesn’t get them.
My current vehicles are an 03 infiniti g35 c (summer), 05 grand cherokee (winter) & 08 Prius (wife). Fixing to pickup a new Prius here in a spot and who knows maybe I can eek 30 years out of that if I only put 3-4k miles a year on it.
I commuted (in MN) 12 miles 1 way for 4.5 years. I’d ride every year until usually mid Jan. b/f the trails were too icy & start up again in March. Admittedly I was rather committed, so rain or snow typically didn’t stop me it was the ice each winter that would, though all my riding at the time was on a road bike a cyclocross/gravel/mtbk would have greater clearance for studded (carbide) winter tires which I never tried. Now w/hybrid wk arrangement I’m approx. 2x as far away from office & don’t need to go in much, which makes commute by bike less practical, although could be an excuse to buy a new e-bike hmmm
My city is a first ring suburb and they are in the process of addressing this right now. Some of the bikelanes are useless/dangerous but other ones are decent.
One owner ’90 Miata, 190,000 miles, forever. Super reliable.