Home » How Volkswagen’s Attempt To Go Electric Might Have Ironically Made The Company Dirtier

How Volkswagen’s Attempt To Go Electric Might Have Ironically Made The Company Dirtier

Tmd Vw Dirty Ts
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Volkswagen has struggled around the world post-Dieselgate, but at least the North American arm was able to send more than a billion dollars home to Wolfsburg during the pandemic. This led the brand’s new regional CEO to promise even bigger returns on the back of electric car sales. That’s not happening, and now the company finds itself in the ironic position of potentially losing billions of dollars in North America, partially because electrification has made its US offerings too dirty in the aggregate. The more cars it sells, potentially, the worse it does.

Everyone in Europe wants to know how VW is going to save itself and if it can do so without having to close a bunch of plants, which is unpalatable for many reasons. Volkswagen thinks it can do it, but it won’t be easy and will likely involve wage cuts, per reports.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

This Morning Dump won’t be all VW, I promise. We’ve been calling it the “Year of the Hybrid,” but perhaps it’s the Decade of the EREV is more accurate? And, finally, if we’re going to really electrify America we need help from landlords. Happy Monday, I’m sure all anyone cares about this week is my thoughts on EREVs.

Volkswagen Will Probably Lose More Than A Billion Dollars In Expected Revenue After Foreseeable Catch-22

Large 17715 Pablodisipresidentceovolkswagengroupofamericaceoofvolkswagenbrandnorthamericanregion Large

Joseph Heller became famous for coining the term Catch-22 in his novel of the same name. The protagonist of the book, Captain John Yossarian, is an American pilot in WWII who wants to go home, which requires flying a certain number of dangerous combat missions. But every time he completes the required number of missions his commanding officer raises the number he needs to go home. Accomplishing his goal, paradoxically, puts him further away from his goal.

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Yossarian vacillates between being worried about the Germans and being worried about his American superiors. Volkswagen Group of America CEO Pablo Di Si is an Argentine who is vacillating between being worried about American customers and his German superiors, who are reportedly considering firing him.

His crime? Being too successful and, at the same time, extremely unsuccessful.

I don’t need to hit this too hard, but in the wake of Dieselgate it was decided in Germany that the company would go hard into electrification, largely skipping over the interim step of offering hybrids. The theory was that, given the rapidly advancing take rate for EVs, changes to climate laws, and the general vibe that vehicles like the Porsche Taycan, Volkswagen ID.4, and the ID.Buzz were getting, this would change VW’s outward perception and fortunes.

As Jack Ewing writes in his excellent book on the Dieselgate crisis:

“The emissions scandal forced Volkswagen to abandon its longtime obsessions with diesel. Instead, Volkswagen focused its still formidable industrial might on a transition to electric cars. That was the only way the company could rebuild its reputation and comply with increasingly stringent limits on carbon dioxide emissions.”

Was it the only way, though? The company was already losing ground before Dieselgate, and in the years following the company saw its sales dwindle. Ironically for a company with a desire to clean up its act, it was the exclusively gas-powered SUVs like the large Volkswagen Atlas SUV that helped the company return to sales success. So far this year, VW ID.4 sales are down while the Atlas, Atlas CrossSport, and long-wheelbase Tiguan are up 16%, 6%, and 26%, respectively.

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To make matters more complicated, Volkswagen hit the same supply constraints everyone else did during the pandemic and, in a similar fashion, made more money doing so. It was able to return profits to Volkswagen which, for Di Si, who became CEO over here around that time, was maybe a bad thing.

Germany’s Der Spiegel has a whole write-up on Di Si that came out this weekend and the implication is that things aren’t looking great for Di Si:

More than a billion euros of expected earnings from North America will be missing by 2025, with Thomas Schäfer, the CEO of VW’s passenger car operations, having to scrounge up that money elsewhere. Chairman of the Board Oliver Blume, who declared success in North America to be a company priority, now has to begin looking around for a new executive for the region after just two years.

[…]

The new executive awakened expectations back in Wolfsburg that the pandemic-era profits would continue to pour in. A mistake. “You get such a job when you make big promises,” says a company executive who asked not to be identified. “And you lose it again because you are unable to fulfill them.”

Yikes!

In fairness to Di Si, what was he supposed to do here? Volkswagen absolutely shot itself in the foot with an electrification plan that preceded Di Si who, again, has been asking for hybrids. This isn’t to say that electrification is a bad thing. It’s not! I think in all of my hype over hybrids I can sometimes, unintentionally, give the impression that I don’t think electrification makes sense. It does and, eventually, most new cars sold will be electric. It’s always been the timing and infrastructure that’s been the issue.

China has shown what’s possible when an entire society and government decide it wants electric cars, but that kind of organized movement is a little messier in a modern democracy. The economic woes in Europe, the IRA in the United States, and politics everywhere have made the transition a lot slower.

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Why that’s a huge issue is that both American and European governments have increasingly stringent CO2 requirements and Volkswagen assumed it would be able to hit those by balancing out all their popular ICE-powered SUVs and crossovers with increasingly larger EV sales.

That didn’t happen. Again, from Der Spiegel:

In May, Di Si’s team presented Blume with an alarming forecast for the electric car market. Predictions to that point had held that every second new car sold in 2030 would be purely electric, but newer prognostications had lowered that figure to 40 percent.

Plug-in hybrids, meanwhile, were predicted to make up 20 percent of new car sales by the end of the decade. Such vehicles, which have both a medium-sized battery and a combustion engine, also help producers adhere to the ZEV regulations in California. In the coming years, however, VW will not have a single plug-in hybrid model on the U.S. market. “The cupboards are bare,” says a top executive.

Double yikes! According to the article, we’re not likely to get a hybrid or PHEV version of the Tiguan until maybe 2027 at the earliest and the Atlas Hybrid might not get here until 2030. Not to keep piling irony on top of irony, but Scout Motors is owned by Volkswagen and seems to have exactly the right strategy of EREV/BEV cars and that company is run by… the guy who used to have Di Si’s job.

VW’s options in the short term are not good. The company can keep selling popular cars like the Golf R and Atlas and pay huge penalties for doing so in places like California. It can sell fewer cars, which means less money. It can pray that everyone buys an ID.Buzz, but I’m skeptical. This move to pure BEVs is — due to insufficient sales — actually making VW dirtier than if it had invested in more hybrids.

It’s bad. The inability to sell ID.4s could result in you no longer being able to get a Golf R!

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VW: You Can Keep Your Job, Maybe, If You Take A Pay Cut

Vw Plant
Photo: depositphotos.com

The German labor system has been based, to some degree, on the concept that workers get compensated alongside executives when the company is doing well and work with management to adjust when things get rough. This arrangement seems to be falling apart as Volkswagen considers extreme measures to remain competitive in a tough market.

Volkswagen is now telling its workers that it can either dramatically cut wages or close plants.

From Bloomberg:

Volkswagen AG laid out cost-savings proposals to workers that would shore up its financial position while potentially avoiding factory closures in Germany.

Arne Meiswinkel, the carmaker’s chief negotiator, said the measures include a 10% pay cut and revised bonus system. The moves are meant to shore up the VW brand that’s struggling with poor demand in Europe and intensifying competition in China.

VW and labor leaders warned that plant closures remain a possibility if a sufficient agreement can’t be reached.

Labor’s issue here seems to be that the problems facing the automaker are less the result of larger macroeconomic and global trends and, instead, due to a series of fraudulent and bad decisions that led them here that workers had zero control over at the time. That’s probably true (see above), but as big boss Oliver Blume said today “Our costs in Germany have to come down massively.”

China’s Nio Rumored To Be Making An EREV For Less EV-Advanced Countries Like France And Germany

Nio Et9 Live
Source: NIO

Ok, that was mean. That headline was mean. France and Germany are plenty advanced, just not in terms of electrification when you consider a place like China where more than half of the new vehicles now are sold with a plug.

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Chinese automakers desperately want to sell cars in Europe and, to do that might just need to make an EREV version. At least, that’s what Reuters is reporting:

Chinese electric vehicle maker Nio is planning to launch its first hybrid model in 2026 and will only sell it in overseas markets, including the Middle East, North Africa and Europe, according to two people with knowledge of the matter.

Nio to date has only manufactured pure electric vehicles. It is building the hybrid vehicle to address challenges faced by Chinese firms selling EVs in foreign markets, which have put up trade barriers and been slower to install charging facilities.

One of those markets is also the Middle East and the company’s biggest investor, the folks who also just bought McLaren, might have been the ones to suggest it.

Landlords Need To Start Building Out Charging Options

Focus Progressive Woman Using Phone And Holding Coffee At Charging Station.
Image: depositphotos.com

I would have loved to have purchased an EV or a PHEV when I bought my car, but I live in a city and have a parking space that’s probably ten years away from having any kind of charging option. It’s possible the city lot nearby will get EV chargers at some point, but my guess is we’re still a long time from that happening. So I got a regular ol’ hybrid.

It doesn’t have to be this way. When I went to visit David at his old apartment in California there was a garage full of EV chargers and it was therefore possible for David to keep buying BMW i3s and even a busted Nissan Leaf.

With home charging being the most efficient, cheapest, and most practical form of filling up an EV with electrons, it’s starting to become a bigger issue when an apartment complex doesn’t offer charging.

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From the Detroit Free Press:

Vehicle charging is expected in new multiunit luxury housing, said Brett Yuhasz, vice president of construction at Farmington Hills, Michigan, developer Hunter Pasteur.

“We’re responding to what the customer wants,” he said. “One of the first questions we get is, ‘What can you do to charge my car?’ When you think of luxury living and what it takes to be No. 1 in metro Detroit, EV charging is 1A or 1B. Like high-speed internet.”

The first couple to move into Hunter Pasteur’s new Apex luxury development in West Bloomfield, which says it offers 40 EV chargers, own a Tesla, Yuhasz said. “Clearly, we’re do something right.”

For new construction it’s a no-brainer, for old buildings like mine it’s a bit harder, but it’s not impossible.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

No one talks about The Fiery Furnaces anymore. This is a very Elder Millennial complaint. I realize this. As my brain tries to grapple with the slowing down of time this week I’ve found that “Smelling Cigarettes” off the full-length EP album is helping. Just something about Eleanor Friedberger belting out “And I’m just drunk enough to open the window, yell out gruff: ‘Don’t you key that brand-new Camry'”

The Big Question

What is there to be done about Volkswagen in the United States?

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Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
11 hours ago

I’ve posted it several times before, but I see zero reason to consider a VW product these days, outside of the GTI and Golf R. But even then my enthusiasm is usually tamped down by 1) VW’s “reliability” and 2) the cost of a Golf R.

Everything else in the lineup just seems like a transportation appliance. Which is fine, but if I want a transportation appliance, it better be reliable and inexpensive to own/operate.

What is the sales pitch for a VW Atlas over a Highlander, Pilot, CX-90, Santa Fe/Palisade/Sorento/Telluride? Probably should include the Chevy Traverse/GMC twin these days since they look pretty nice with the redesign.

A quick look has a loaded SEL R Atlas advertised for about $50k (after $5k off). So it isn’t beating any of these cars on price, except maybe the Highlander Hybrid’s higher level trims.

Fuel economy? Nope, not when Toyota, Mazda, and the Korean brands offer hybrids and PHEVs. Otherwise the 2.0T VW is getting similar gas mileage to the V6 Honda.

Quality? Lets see, VW’s reputation isn’t great in that department and they offer a bottom of the barrel warranty to back it up. Probably not going to convince me to take a chance with them when I could stick with the Japanese brands or get a better warranty from Hyundai/Kia.

MrLM002
MrLM002
11 hours ago

Landlords Need To Start Building Out Charging Options

Yes, but in the form of external 240V outlets. Bring your own charger. It’s the same as a LVL 2 charging station for like 1% of the cost, and with changing charging standards it’s the best option.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
10 hours ago
Reply to  MrLM002

That’s what I installed where I parked my car… a standard NEMA 14-50 outlet. I use it regularly to charge my car and if I want to, I could also use it to run stuff like a welder.

Lizardman in a human suit
Lizardman in a human suit
10 hours ago

Yup. Makes much more sense to install a plug that has more than one use. I’d do the same if I was to get a bev. I already have a rv plug in front of my house.

TheDrunkenWrench
TheDrunkenWrench
12 hours ago

They should probably borrow Scout’s EREV tech and slap it in a bunch of Crossovers.
Maybe chuck one in the Buzz while they’re at it to justify that lack of a flat loading floor.
I loathe crossovers with a fiery passion, but they seem to be the people mover these days.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
12 hours ago

I’m glad someone is bringing up the challenge of owning an EV with apartment living. I suspect it’s going to take a long time for older complexes to have charging stations.
My workplace just installed carports in the office parking lot that are covered with solar panels and have EV chargers built into the structure. Could be an approach other places start following.

Mike B
Mike B
11 hours ago
Reply to  Bob the Hobo

Yup. Apartment dweller here, probably always be at this point. I have street parking, charging an EV at home is not an option.

We had a meeting at work a few months ago where they talked about “green” initiatives, such as installing solar panels on the roof and even over the parking lot. Someone asked about EV changers and was met with a blank stare and “we hadn’t thought about that”.

Mike B
Mike B
8 hours ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

My thoughts exactly! Luckily, since then I’ve had conversations with the engineer involved with the solar project, and it’s on HIS radar and he’s trying to nudge management. He also believes any changing for employee EV’s should be free.

Username Loading...
Username Loading...
12 hours ago

Volkswagen throughly missed the mark on EVs with both the platform and the offerings. They have their MEB platform which should have provided a solid scalable architecture to build a range of EVs on but it just isn’t competitive in its performance. It doesn’t offer high performance and quick charging like Kia/Hyundai’s platform nor offer longer range like like GM’s. They paired this with products that were just not interesting or compelling at all. Maybe if they had launched the ID.Buzz instead of the ID.4 as their lead offering they would’ve had some momentum, but they never seemed to have a compelling offering. The Buzz would’ve at least been interesting at that time but now it seems like an overpriced novelty. The strategy of a scalable ev platform is now bearing fruit for Hyundai and GM. Volkswagen should’ve had similar success but had neither the platform nor the product to complete.

Data
Data
11 hours ago

The buzz on the Buzz died before the vehicle finally arrived.

86-GL
86-GL
11 hours ago
Reply to  Data

Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like the Buzz would have made a lot more sense 10-15 years ago, back when older boomers/ young silent gen were still energetic, and throwing silly money at 60s cars. Would have made a nice counterpoint to the pony-car revival… Maybe VW knew old hippies experiencing a midlife crisis weren’t as big on raiding their kids college fund to buy retro vehicles.

Ironically I actually know a few people with fond memories of travelling to Europe and camping out in a VW van for their honey moon, etc. Sadly these folks are pushing 80 now.

Thevenin
Thevenin
2 hours ago

The MEB platform is unspectacular, but it’s versatile, scalable, pushes the limits of 400V, and routinely outperforms similarly-priced EVs in range and charging. Including variants, there are 20 MEB vehicles in or near production, and many of those are compelling. It’s a successful workhorse platform, just not in the US.

VW’s EV failure in the US is a case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They launched an unattractive vehicle with busted software into an oversaturated crossover market. Software updates in the US lag the EU by nearly a year. The MEB platform gives the ID.4 a good value proposition which VW promtly ruins with trimflation. The Q4 was just a bad fit (it’s an Audi, it should go fast), and the Buzz’s target consumer is unclear (maybe the Whole Foods crowd?).

VW’s lack of lineup is also a huge mistake. The WHOLE POINT of a platform is it allows the company to push into multiple segments at once. A Cupra Born could compete with an Equinox EV on price while beating it in charging speed. An ID.7 could take the crown as the road trip king. The ID.4 can be good value, but it can’t be good value compared to EVERYTHING.

TL;DR: MEB is good. VW is just dumb.

SaabaruDude
SaabaruDude
12 hours ago

“that politician/political party is going to ban gasoline vehicles!”
Snopes fact-check: false

It’s bad. The inability to sell ID.4s could result in you no longer being able to get a Golf R!

This is what most of the concern has been about the whole time: a ban by any other name.

Rippstik
Rippstik
12 hours ago
Reply to  SaabaruDude

I see the ICE bans happening a few ways:

1) Make registration/road taxes/gasoline taxes so high that ICE cars will essentially be unaffordable
2) Put so much emissions equipment on the cars to make them too expensive to maintain/repair (We are seeing this with diesels; Ford is starting to put GPF’s on newer ICE cars recently.)
3) Block access to major cities/hubs or be fined (seen in Europe already)
4) Ban manual transmission due to emissions (seen, also in Europe on certain sportscars)
5) Lack of money for fun cars because poor sales of appliances

Most governments won’t do a straight up ban, but will make life so expensive/inconvenient that most will HAVE to switch.

Last edited 12 hours ago by Rippstik
Chronometric
Chronometric
12 hours ago

German autoworkers are quite highly paid in terms of cash, work hours, and benefits. Unless they are making premium products (Mercedes, BMW, Porsche), the cost structure makes it hard for companies like VW to compete on price. They could do so in Europe but recently had to position themselves as premium in the US because of Japanese and US competitors.

Now, with Chinese EVs taking Europe by storm and the US delaying EV adoption, VW is in a world of hurt. Could this have been foreseen? Yes, maybe, but when the ship is going down everyone has to paddle, not just the captain. A 10% giveback to help finance a course correction does not seem unreasonable to me.

the concept that workers get compensated alongside executives when the company is doing well and work with management to adjust when things get rough

Fasterlivingmagazine
Fasterlivingmagazine
12 hours ago
Reply to  Chronometric

You must be an executive of some sort.

Jon Myers
Jon Myers
12 hours ago

I can summarize VW’s EV problems as seen by anyone that has purchased an EV: Uncompetitive. None of their EVs do anything to stand out. They don’t charge very fast, they don’t have very good range, their software is buggy, and they are overpriced. There are plenty of very compelling EVs from Tesla, GM, and Kia/Hyundai that have great specs and reasonable prices. You cannot say that about VW.

Scoutdude
Scoutdude
12 hours ago

It is amazing the number of companies that seem to have failed to foresee the after effects of the pandemic coming.

Take the PC/TV/Furniture companies. Once people realized they were going to be spending a lot more time sitting on or in front of one of those things decided that it was time for an upgrade. That was amplified by the fact that many people found themselves with more disposable income. The problem is that didn’t create new demand, it pulled demand forward. In other words the person who might not have replaced their TV/Computer/couch for another couple of years bought then instead of waiting. The result of course was that it significantly impacted future demand.

On the automotive side profits were high due to reduced availability and the fact that money was cheap meaning that the buyers could afford to pay more and not notice it due to the low interest rates. Like anything those interest rates couldn’t stay low forever while supply was likely to increase.

Tbird
Tbird
12 hours ago

Ironically, diesel may just be the best solution for EREV, particularly if in a true series configuration.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
7 hours ago
Reply to  Tbird

I’m not so sure. Gasoline engine thermal efficiency now rivals Diesel. I think a modern gasoline ICE will be cheaper, lighter and cleaner than a modern diesel equivalent. The gasoline infrastructure is also more extensive than the one for diesel.

Rippstik
Rippstik
12 hours ago

I think there are a couple of big issues at VW:

1) They used to make quirky, fun, and super high quality automobiles, compared to the competition, because the VW’s were based off premium offerings that were slightly cheapened. They’ve lost most of what made VW, VW, and the lineup is uninspiring. Scout is a good move, but is very niche.

2) Most Americans are intimidated by EV’s. The ones who aren’t are already in Teslas or the like. Because most EV’s don’t have a personality to differentiate them (much like ICE cars), the biggest differentiators are the styling, range, and the quirky features that others don’t have. Tesla essentially has everyone beat on range (for the price). Rivian makes cool offroaders (all hail the gear tunnel). VW has a blob with an awful UI and idiotic window switches.

3) Most Americans aren’t going to go straight from an ICE car to an EV if they already haven’t. Plug in hybrids are kind of expensive or hard to get (or are woefully unreliable). Hybrids seem to be the move. VW is not doing well in this space.

How to fix VW:

1) Hybrids. Hybrids. Hybrids.

2) Bring back the premium for a base price mentality. Oh, and bring out a 20K car and make it in fun colors. Crossover height. A La Chevy Trax.

3) Make some fun cars again. The fact that the Golf Alltrack, Golf, and Beetle are no longer around is silly.

4) Fix the UI. Being different to be different in stupid ways is not going to win hearts.

5) Bring back the big warranty. VW has been the butt of Check Engine Light jokes for decades. Win back customer trust.

6) Step back from the all-EV future. It is a money bleed. If you can’t be the best, you’re going to be last in that space.

Along with Martin, Dutch Gunderson, Lana and Sally Decker
Along with Martin, Dutch Gunderson, Lana and Sally Decker
12 hours ago
Reply to  Rippstik

If I may expand on your well thought-out ideas a bit.

7) Volkswagen should leverage its brand history to offer a full line of EV vehicles based on legacy models (Beetle, Bus, Thing, Karmann Ghia) while redoubling its efforts on modern vehicles (Golf, Jetta, Passat, Tiguan, Atlas) as the gas/Diesel/hybrid vehicles.

8) Stop half-assing things and be a full-line manufacturer in their largest market. I fear they’re going to solve this with the Scout line, and it is going to be another half-hearted, half-assed attempt to do something in the N.A. market.

Rippstik
Rippstik
12 hours ago

I would have done inappropriate things for a Golf Alltrack TDI with a manual…like buying a Volkswagen.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
12 hours ago
Reply to  Rippstik

2) Bring back the premium for a base price mentality. Oh, and bring out a 20K car and make it in fun colors. Crossover height. A La Chevy Trax.

Make it Beetle-shaped and they win.

PaysOutAllNight
PaysOutAllNight
3 hours ago
Reply to  Bob the Hobo

No. That would waste money and put them in even worse position. Now is not the time for vehicles with tragically narrow markets.

As much as I love the Beetle, they stopped building it because it’d gained a reputation as a “girl’s car” and very few male drivers would buy them even as used cars.

When the first generation New Beetle was launched, there were clear signs of gender preference. Over 60% of buyers were women. The second generation restyle was an attempt to balance the appeal, but it didn’t work.

The redesign didn’t restore balance. New registrations were 79% female, 21% male, and the trend line sloped downward to far worse.

(I’d love a new Beetle. Shaped like a 911.)

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
12 hours ago
Reply to  Rippstik

The last time VW wanted to reinvent themselves in America: they came out with a VW Jetta where every surface is hard plastic and runs the same 2.slow engine from 1980, and a VW Passat based on an old platform. Then followed up by making some large SUVs.

The second part seems to have stuck.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
12 hours ago

VW is making the same mistake pretty much every German manufacturer and some Japanese ones are as well. They’re ignoring what customers actually want in favor of the “we know best, you’ll get it how we think it should be” approach to their cars. Understandably this turns a lot of people off and leaves us with disastrous products like their hellish infotainment system, no available hybrids, automatic only Golfs, etc.

It’s also given us other hilariously bad German products like the 4 cylinder C63 AMG/all of Mercedes’ EVs, the EV Cayman/Boxster that they’re now rushing to change course and engineer an ICE option into, etc…on top of the absolute tech nightmare interiors that they’re all foisting on us as well.

VW, like many, basically decided that they’d try to be Tesla. Every single attempt at this has gone up in flames, because there’s only one Tesla and a Venn Diagram of the sort of customers that are interested in Teslas and the type of car enthusiasts/quirky folks that are into VWs are basically two separate circles.

As a result we’ve wound up with a bunch of bad products that aren’t for anybody. VW isn’t competitive in any class anymore. You either have to really want a modern VW (if that’s the case I’d suggest you speak with your therapist) or be willing to risk a much worse ownership experience for a deep discount. The reason the Tiguan and Atlas sell is because there’s an infinite supply of them.

If you want a hybrid Highlander or RAV4 there’s a good chance you’ll have to wait and pay a premium for it…and while other Japanese alternatives like the Pilot/CRV are objectively better choices, you’re going to pay more of them as well. I’m sure if you’re a decent negotiator you can drive off a VW lot in an Atlas for 15% under MSRP financed at a very low rate. Good luck doing that in a Highlander…

Anyway, with all this and more in mind VW is cooked, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Frank Carter
Frank Carter
12 hours ago

I agree with your assesment. There are a few of us folks who own Teslas and are car enthusiasts too, but we are too rare to save VW.

V10omous
V10omous
12 hours ago

 the EV Cayman/Boxster that they’re now rushing to change course and engineer an ICE option into

This misstep is going to be taught in business schools alongside New Coke someday.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
12 hours ago
Reply to  V10omous

Porsche doesn’t even need to electrify those cars. They’ll sell enough Taycans/Macan EVs/E Hybrid Panameras and Cayennes that their fleet emissions will be pretty low all things considered. Literally no one asked for an electric 718.

Honestly I think it may have come to be because Porsche said “challenge accepted” and wants to prove they can make an electric version of the rich man’s Miata that’s as good as the ICE version…and knowing them they may damn well pull it off, but at the end of the day no one cares.

Until regulations make ICE versions unfeasible I see absolutely no reason to electrify cars that are toys. What percentage of people who own a 718 or Miata do you think daily them? And I mean in general, not on this site because I’m positive people here do but we’re not normal lol. These cars sell in low volumes, usually sit in garages for months on end, and get brought out on nice weekends.

Why bother electrifying them? To say that the emissions from enthusiast weekend cars are negligible is putting it lightly. Let them live forever.

AssMatt
AssMatt
12 hours ago

Every time you use that photo of VW’s HQ I zone out thinking about Pink Floyd and have to re-read the bit four times.

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
12 hours ago
Reply to  AssMatt

Yep, I keep looking for the pigs on the wing… must be behind one of the stacks.

Tbird
Tbird
12 hours ago

“There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one’s safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn’t, but if he were sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn’t have to, but if he didn’t want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle. (p. 56, ch. 5)”

AssMatt
AssMatt
12 hours ago
Reply to  Tbird

I found this book to be hilarious but I’ve never talked to anybody that felt the same way. And the movie’s darned good, too (Alan Arkin with hair!).

Tbird
Tbird
12 hours ago
Reply to  AssMatt

Read it decades ago, it is both hilarious and frighteningly true.

Wuffles Cookie
Wuffles Cookie
12 hours ago
Reply to  AssMatt

I also found it hilarious, probably the best thing I read in high school as assigned reading. I think I still have my copy floating around, may have to crack it open…

ElmerTheAmish
ElmerTheAmish
11 hours ago
Reply to  AssMatt

I tried reading the book on a couple occasions, and just couldn’t make my way through it. Then I tried the audio book version, and was able to follow along slightly better. It wasn’t until I watched the movie (and then the Hulu mini-series) that I finally understood the damn thing!

Great piece of literature, even if my poor brain can’t keep up with it! lol

AssMatt
AssMatt
11 hours ago
Reply to  ElmerTheAmish

I didn’t know there was a Hulu version, I’ll have to look into it. Thanks for the heads-up!

A Nonymous
A Nonymous
12 hours ago
Reply to  Tbird

Loved the reference to this book today. My all-time fave.

My Goat Ate My Homework
My Goat Ate My Homework
13 hours ago

For landlords it’s all about cashflow. So, they need a way to recoup the cost in the very short term. I think that works for higher-end where demand is probably there and where they can price it into the unit.
But, for mid-market it would probably have to be a per-month adder since they compete more on price and for down-market there is no chance without subsidies.

As for VW, their issue is price. They’ve always been on the more expensive side for no apparent reason.

Eggsalad
Eggsalad
13 hours ago

The ADA demands that every apartment complex must make a certain percentage of its rental units ADA compliant. It’s not a reach to demand that every apartment complex have a certain number of parking spaces equipped with 220V receptacles.

TOSSABL
TOSSABL
12 hours ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

I agree—but that requires a literal act of Congress. I’m not completely confident either house could even get a majority to agree on what day it is

Wuffles Cookie
Wuffles Cookie
12 hours ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

Except every regulation you pile on builders/renovators is another regulation that prices out marginal projects and mom-and-pop landlords. There is a very huge affordability crisis in many cities, the same cities that will be most likely to implement such legislation, and the more regulations you pile on housing, the more expensive it gets.

ElmerTheAmish
ElmerTheAmish
12 hours ago
Reply to  Wuffles Cookie

Right, the “We’ve Tried Nothing, and We’re All Out of Ideas” approach.

The money is there – or can be there if we wanted it to be. We just need some courage to assign it to something like this in order to make cost to developers an essential non-issue.

Ben
Ben
10 hours ago
Reply to  ElmerTheAmish

Providing money to do a thing is a very different beast from just mandating it in code. IIRC, the IRA already has money set aside for charging. If some of it isn’t earmarked for apartment infrastructure then it probably should be.

It kind of reminds me of a company meeting we had a few years back. The CEO came on and talked about how important it is for our engineers to connect with our customers to really understand how our product is used. I asked my manager when I could book my travel for a customer visit and the response was “there’s no money”. If you don’t put your money where your mouth is you’re just blowing hot air.

Wuffles Cookie
Wuffles Cookie
10 hours ago
Reply to  ElmerTheAmish

Not every problem requires a government intervention, and every government intervention offers opportunity for graft and corruption. You want to offer enough money to let developers install EV charging at no cost to them? I 100% guarantee people will find a way to deliver the stated specification to get the government defined reimbursement, all the while doing it with substandard materials and labor that means they get to keep a healthy chunk for themselves. Happens all day every day with any and all government programs- from little corner stores ringing up cigarettes as food items to be eligible for EBT to defense contractors scamming millions out of the DoD for surplus Chinese ammo relabeled as European.

As the article itself notes, EV charging is high on potential tenants lists of wants for luxury housing- and as more and more EVs hit the roads, it will become increasingly necessary for apartments to offer charging if they want to remain competitive.

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
13 hours ago

I’m not certain what VW even represents anymore. I think most people get the vibe of Toyota-esque appliance, but without the Toyota reliability. That’s not a great reputation to have, and it’s not a great way to sell cars.

VW needs to pick a lane. They have two choices, go back to being the premium choice of the 00’s, or go back to being cheap/cheerful.

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
12 hours ago

With their cost structure I suspect the former is the only real option for them, but they’d need desirable products to pull that off. Plus in the meanwhile Mazda has jumped into that market segment that they vacated – a company that really does produce desirable vehicles to sell.

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
12 hours ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

Mazda has certainly pushed into that slot and beaten VW at that game. They sell nice cars that don’t break much.

Mrbrown89
Mrbrown89
13 hours ago

I still dont understand why VW wants to target high volume of sales, that high revenue but they don’t have the footprint in the US or the products to do it, neither the quality. VW is for high volume in other countries where they offer vehicles under the Jetta segment but their current offering in the US is very niche, something like Mazda right now.

Mazda is selling very high desirable product with quality, VW is not. Mazda is doing what VW used to do.

They had all this time to improve their quality to start exploring other segments but they are still stuck in pre-diesel scandal. They are a little late to the party.

LMCorvairFan
LMCorvairFan
13 hours ago

The quote from the Detroit developer says it all … ‘luxury’ about your decade or more assertion for charging infrastructure in the condo/apartment domain. I expect developers will demand that cities, municipalities, states and provinces cough up some form of money to do any infrastructure updates. That of course will take stadiums full of money and decades of time to happen.

On VW… poor decisions on management’s part actually do have a direct impact on the workers. Looks like they are gonna get hosed in this one.

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
13 hours ago

VW needs to EREV up their entire US line up and build a small pick up for here, too.

Angel "the Cobra" Martin
Angel "the Cobra" Martin
13 hours ago

I haven’t seen an ID4 around me in a while. It seems they were all leased and have been turned back in.
If VW would make an EV convertible I think they would get sales. My wife wants a convertible but she only wants an EV. So, here we are.

Alexk98
Alexk98
13 hours ago

VW needs to listen to customers for a change. Keep the Manual GTI/R, bring back physical controls, and give us Hybrids. It’s clear VW of America has always been siloed by what Germany wants, and the few times VWoA gets their way with products, it works. Reliability boost would also do wonders, but knowing VW, that won’t happen.

V10omous
V10omous
13 hours ago

As the site’s #1 VW hater, I have very little to add in terms of what might work to get more people to buy their vehicles, because there’s literally nothing they could do to get me to buy one.

But that said, a very lengthy and high quality warranty coupled with low upfront pricing is probably the best hope. It’s going to be short term pain but building some kind of loyalty is necessary if they want to make it in the long run.

Last edited 13 hours ago by V10omous
Crimedog
Crimedog
13 hours ago
Reply to  V10omous

I don’t hate them, but they never even cross my radar while daydreaming use cases for other vehicles. I guess they make Passat, Golf, Tiguan, and Atlas? That is my understanding of them, which, if drastically wrong, shows how much of a non-starter they are for me.

The warranty did wonders for Korean brands in the aughts, even if they were junk. It gave them the opportunity to continue into what they are now.

So, I think we are vehemently agreeing with one another….

Alexk98
Alexk98
13 hours ago
Reply to  Crimedog

Passat has been gone for a couple Model Years now, base Golf isn’t available in the US, Jetta got a minor bland refresh this year, the Tiguan and Atlas are aging far too much, and the Taos exists. ID.4 is laughable in it’s category, and the ID.Buzz is too expensive for the limited range and interior volume it has compared to traditional Minivans. VWs lineup right now can only be described as dire in the US.

V10omous
V10omous
13 hours ago
Reply to  Crimedog

Yep, the Koreans were exactly the idea I had in mind.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
13 hours ago
Reply to  V10omous

For a little while VW offered 6 years/72,000 miles as their bumper to bumper warranty. Then they got cheap and stopped. I still remember when I was shopping for a GTI in 2020 salesmen were trying to pitch me on certified ones because most of them had longer warranties than new ones due to the longer regular warranty/whatever the certification added to that. I nearly bought a certified Golf R over my eventual GTI, and in retrospect maybe I should have.

Bjorn A. Payne Diaz
Bjorn A. Payne Diaz
13 hours ago

I can’t help but wonder if VW is in the situation that GM was in 2008.

Why do they need a Seat, Skoda and VW version of everything? It just adds unnecessary complexity. I get that to serve the customer base you probably need all the tooling required that currently exists for Seat, Skoda, and VW, but simpler is better. Then, you can get rid of all the ancillary “support” required for 3 brands of the same vehicle.

TheHairyNug
TheHairyNug
13 hours ago

It’s amazing to think that the ID.4 is a Dieselgate reaction product, because that drama happened in 2015, and the ID.4 has never given the “we spent half a decade working on this” vibe

Alexk98
Alexk98
13 hours ago
Reply to  TheHairyNug

On the flipside, Electrify America is also a Dieselgate reaction (really punishment) product, and it’s consistently an unabashed disaster, so the ID.4 is exactly as mediocre as I would have expected.

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