Today I found myself at the Lexus dealership for my fiancee’s regular checkup of her 2017 RX350. She seems to enjoy going to this dealership, and since I know there’s (resale) value in her continuing to have that car serviced there, I don’t protest. But here’s the thing: Sometimes the dealership suggests expensive repairs that I can do myself for cheap. But I’m starting to get the impression that my fiancee, Elise (not her real name) would rather just have the dealer do it, especially since my last few repairs haven’t quite gone…swimmingly. Here, allow me to voice a few excuses.
For the longest time, I’ve been doing my own work on my cars. It’s saved me bundles, and — at least when it’s relatively easy stuff like brakes and wipers and batteries — I quite enjoy the wrenching. But now I’m no longer dealing with just my own cars; my fiancee is bringing a Lexus into the family. Specifically, an RX350. And her usual practice of taking it to the dealership and having them fix what needs fixing is something that bothers me deeply.
I’ve mentioned this before. The amount of money you can save fixing a car yourself instead of having the dealership do it is insane. A few months ago, we got this quote from the dealership:
$1,120.78 plus tax, so about $1,200 all-in for a basic brake job?! No way. I ordered up the best parts I could find from Advance Auto Parts:
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That only cost me about $400, saving us $800 in total — a total no-brainer Also a no-brainer was the 12-volt battery replacement; I bought a new black brick from Costco and installed it. That seems to have worked well. Then I swapped out the wipers, front and rear. I bought these highly-rated wipers from Amazon:
This all seems well and good. I’m saving us money, helping us get on a path towards prosperity! But lately, I’ve hit a bit of a snag. I think Elise (not her real name) has lost a bit of faith in my wrenching skills, and through no fault of my own! OK, maybe it is my fault to some degree, as I’m reading forum posts now from Toyota folks who say: Just buy OEM parts.
In the Jeep world, you can buy a cheap Autozone part and it’ll almost certainly be no problem I’ve founded after 15 years of wrenching on Jeeps. But it seems that there is a significantly higher percentage of Toyota owners who go OEM. I think, based on my rather limited examples, I’m starting to understand why now. When it came time to replace Elise’s brakes, I went to Advance Auto and got its top-of-the-line Carquest Platinum/Premium pads and rotors. I’ve never had any issues with these, and installing them was a breeze. All the brackets and holes in the rotors and brake pad backing plates fit exactly how they should. I was diligent with installation, I cleaned the hub to make sure it was flat, I used grease where it made sense, and on and on. It was a basic brake job.
And yet, a mere 4,000 miles later the rotors seem to be trashed. There’s tons of brake dust building up on the wheels, and when I tap the brakes at 70 mph, the steering wheel shudders. The windshield wipers, too, are terrible, leaving streak marks all over the glass. My two most obvious repairs had failed, and I think Elise wants to go back to just having the dealer do the job. If I were her, I would, too.
So I’m trying to figure out how to salvage this, because I do think doing our own brake and suspension work is going to save us a bundle long-term. Right now I’m in a weird spot, because the dealership is telling us “hey, this is wrong with your car,” Elise asks me for my opinion, and I naturally always say “I got this.” And it feels like there’s some doubt there from her and some judgement from the dealer. And I’m just there…sitting in the dealership feeling supremely awkward.
Sot I need to step it up; this ain’t some old Jeep I’m dealing with, I’m working on a modern Lexus that needs to be extremely safe and comfortable, and that needs to pass the scrutiny of a dealership that has incentive to instill a bit of doubt in Elise’s mind about my wrenching skills. I just need to remind myself how much I’m saving on labor as I fork over Benjamins to the Toyota parts counter.
And that’s not even addressing another pressing issue, which is: At what point do I just let a shop work on our cars? Time is becoming harder and harder to come by, and while I still am fundamentally opposed to shelling out 1200 bucks on some basic brake work, it’s possible I’ll have to change my mind on that someday as I run out of moments left to spare. I’m no longer a single man with 14 cars and nothing but time.
And then there’s the fact that her dealership does 10,000 miles oil-change intervals, something that may check out scientifically, but that I think is probably a bad idea for someone who does daily short commutes like Elise does. Do I just do the oil changes myself even though she wants to service her car at the dealer and even though it’d look good on a Carfax seeing it was regularly dealer-serviced. It’s entirely up to her, of course, but it’s hard for me — a diehard wrencher — to bite my tongue in the face of a $1,200 bill for some disks and pads.Yikes!
VW owner here. OE or OEM wins every time. The parts just work. Especially on safety systems. A lifetime warranty is useless if the brakes are also useless.
First off, congrats! I’ve been out of touch for a couple of weeks so I hadn’t heard this.
Your valuation for time vs. money is going to change the older (and hopefully wealthier) you get. There’s no one answer to this question, and the tipping point will definitely be different a year or two from now than it is today.
That said, you put cheap parts on a luxury car and they failed. Your penance is letting the dealership fix your mistake until (and if) your fiancee decides she trusts you to work on it again.
Also, going back to the time vs. money thing, sure you saved a bunch by going with cheap brakes, but now you have to do them again. Assuming you don’t make the same mistake and buy equally cheap parts, how much are you really saving by having to do it twice? Never mind the time commitment. This is why I shelled out for the $150 struts on my car instead of the $35 ones. The cheapies will definitely need replacement sooner, so they’re going to cost more in time and money than they first appear.
You put crappy Advance Auto/Amazon parts, no surprise they didn’t work out. On a clapped old Jeep that may be acceptable, but for something like a Lexus I would not buy a single thing from Advance Auto/Autozone/O’Reilly’s or any of those major parts chains. Even the “premium” parts from there are generally pretty crap. Just suck it up and buy original parts for the Lexus.
It’s the same thing I deal with as a BMW parts counter guy, people are always annoyed at the prices for Genuine BMW parts but that’s the price you pay for quality parts, as even the formerly good OEM brands have slipped in quality considerably in the last few years.
To start, as a former slinger of parts to commercial accounts for Advance (I was the person in-store whose job it was to talk to them AKA the CPP), they’ve had quality issues with their pads for the better part of a year or two. It cost me one of my larger accounts (along with missteps by my GM and Commercial Area Manager) and led to me leaving AAP.
Having been here, IMO, buy better quality parts (or OEM/dealer parts) like the Bosch, Akebono, or Power Stop brakes on RockAuto, and absolutely get better wipers. I’ve been using Bosch blades for a long while, and both my Charger and now my Abarth have only ever had one set (~3 years on each so far), and I’ve also heard good about PIAA, and the tire manufacturers’ blades (Michelin, Goodyear, Continental…).
As for the oil, I’d probably buy a bunch of OEM filters in bulk online, then buy a decent oil (Mobil1, Pennzoil syn, Castrol Syn, etc.) and change it in the middle of a 10k dealer interval… So, say it’s at 50k miles and just got a dealer change, I’d change it at 55k, then let her get it done at the dealer at 60k. I say OEM filters so that in theory, the dealer might not have a clue that you’re doing this, and it should keep her happier that you’re not throwing subpar parts on.
Anything beyond regular maintenance items, just let her get done. It’ll make life simpler and it seems to be well within budget for her… If it’s not, then it obviously makes more sense to DIY, but high quality parts (be it dealer, or better researched aftermarket) need to remain key.
I do not think the issue here is that you did the work yourself,I would think you are perfectly capable of that,so you can tell Elise(not her real name) that at least.
I suspect the problem here is the parts were not good enough,either by fluke or just that the materials used are shit.
Generally on Japanese and German cars OEM rules,sometimes because other store brands rarely stock parts for them,sometimes because the manufacturing process is not the same as OEM.
I remember buying pads for my Golf once that i had to literally grind off half the pad material off because they wouldn’t fit in the carrier thing.
You’re used to parts-store parts being just fine because you’re used to working on domestic cars of questionable quality. Well-made cars are well made because the OEM has standards (higher than Mopar standards, at any rate, though that’s a low bar). Get OEM or supplier brand parts. Yes, Bosch and Bilstein and Genuine Mercedes parts cost more, but I’m not wondering when the cheaper Üro equivalent is going to fail. Same with the Japanese.
Also, FAPIUO blades? What even is this shit.
Cheaping out on brakes? Laughable. An article about you arguing with your fiancé about car maintenance? Cringe.
I would say the decision is complicated on when to have something done at the dealer and when not to. Usually I do the work because we really can’t afford the bill when things seem to break. They always seem to happen between Thanksgiving and Christmas after we pay property taxes and before we get gifts for our daughters. If I were just annoyed at paying more, I would just keep the time for working on something around the house, a project car or getting out of the house to be outdoors. Given the choice I am at a stage in my life its nice to have it off to someone who is better and faster at it and if it goes south let them solve the problem.
Look, I was going to write a long post but I’m sure many have properly admonished you on several important points.
The only thing I’m going to say ask is – did you get a copy of the service manual or at LEAST visit YouTube and forums to see how to do this correctly?
A quick google search points out that 2017 Lexus’s have to be put into “brake service mode” – just neglecting something like that as stupid as it sounds could have cause this problem, OEM or cheap Chinese parts or not.
So the *only* way that I would work on your fiancee’s Lexus again is if you do it literally by the book with OEM parts. If you can do it the way it’s done at the dealer, and also save time and money -and I think it might end up being a lot less than you think- then go for it. But if you are going to cheap out and try to wing it. Then never touch her car again and live to fight another day.
Of course; it was just a basic brake job. Had to get the electric park brake to release, but that was only for the rears. Was trivial.
Not worried about the process, I’m worried about the parts.
Understood! Sorry about any assumptions!
I have too many BMW battle scars trying to fix something only to discover a bizarre “procedure” I skipped.
I’d love an update if you are inclined as to what the OE/OEM parts prices are for this job to see where the cost /benefit lies given that!
I’m a Honda guy and I’ll tell you on them too, use OE parts or parts from OE suppliers like Denso. In the absence of quality OE style parts or affordable OE parts, quality mod brands are acceptable. Exedy, Hasport, K-Tuned, and even Sparco parts have found their way into my older cars because of that.
On my HR-V, OE wipers are the best. You can get replacement elements from online OE parts stores for dirt cheap and they’re easy change. Next time I have the brakes done, I’m going OE on the rotors. I haven’t been happy with the Centric rotors I got last time.
I swear by the Michelin wiper blades that Costco sells in my area. A few times a year (like right now) they go on sale for $8 and I pick up a pair for less than $20.
The place to start is with her car. She felt a little burned from the brake job experience, so let her handle it her way for a while. If you don’t push, she may ask you if you could do more work on her car when it needs service again. If that happens, use Toyota parts. Yeah parts-store parts are fine for older normie cars but for something as new as hers, use good parts. You were a Chrysler engineer, so you should have some idea of the validation that goes into OE parts. Regardless, make sure she knows you’ve learned the lesson of the brake job – this will make it easier for her to let you do it again if she wants.
My partner drives a 2008 Prius and she takes it to an indie shop for service. I don’t even have time to work on all my own cars, let alone hers as well; in addition it’s a Prius so it doesn’t need much. She consults me for advice and direction on work it needs and sometimes I’ll talk to the shop myself. I do small stuff for her when it needs it, which makes me look like a hero somehow. She has yet to give me permission to give her Toaster the VIP treatment 🙂
> You were a Chrysler engineer, so you should have some idea of the validation that goes into OE parts
Chrysler is the last place to learn about engineering quality control :p
It’s harder to design a good car cheap than it is to design an expensive good car. At Chrysler, we couldn’t just throw money at our suppliers, we had to just figure it out.
And Tavares is continuing the tradition, throwing NO money at his suppliers :p
I think there is a compromise here — go to an independent mechanic that specializes in Toyota/Lexus cars. You will spend less than at the dealer, but your fiancee will feel better.
Situations like this are why leasing was invented. Well, not the ONLY reason…but certainly one reason.
Other’s have said similar, but it’s important to keep in mind.
You aren’t buying brakes.
You are buying time (drop off the car, go do something fun!), piece of mind, and goodwill from your spouse.
Taking that into account, the price delta starts to diminish quickly.
That goodwill is important. Do the cars turn into “it’s broken again!, it’s your fault!”, or “Thanks for taking the car in for me!” She could really value your input on what is needed or not. Instead of offering to just do it, use your expertise to keep them honest (honest as possible anyway). Take the car in for her. Those things can be much better than saving money, but causing disagreements instead.
That said, perhaps you can negotiate to use a good independent mechanic versus the dealer?
You are getting into the “Our Money vs Each person’s Money separately” territory, and this is not something you should ask your best friends — semi-anonymous posters on the internet — about.
That said, and you did ask:
A few years back I came to this realization. When its a car you have to depend on to get to work, just let the mechanic do it. When its something you can afford to have sit because you made a mistake (like a project car or off road toy) feel free to DIY.
Its saved me a ton of headaches over the years.
I recently paid a shop to do a timing belt on my Sportwagen and to install some quality lowering springs and shocks. They told me that there was no way I could have done the job myself, it was originally a New York car and apparently everything in the suspension put up a fight. Such a fight it’s actually reflected in the bill. I’ve never paid a shop to work on my car before, mostly because until a year ago I couldn’t afford to. It was expensive because these guys are some of the best in the area (they build and race track cars), but it was so nice going to pick up a car and knowing everything was taken care of and done right.
How much do you (and/or “Elise”) make in an hour? (don’t answer that) If it’s more than the money you save by doing the work yourself, then it’s probably not worth it financially. I get that you enjoy working on cars, but you don’t have to work on EVERY car.
Happy wife, happy life.
If you plan on having kids, how much time are you gonna have then? And, most importantly, don’t you want their mom to feel safe and comfortable driving them around?
If you feel like your mechanical skills are being impugned somehow, consider that people who don’t work on cars don’t even think about mechanical skills that way. They want to follow the recommended procedure and then they get warm fuzzies. If they cared about or could discern mechanical competence, they wouldn’t want to go to the dealership all the time!
My partner and I recently bought a “real person car.” And then it hit me that servicing it at the dealer means that even if I get a panicked phone call that something is wrong, it’s not going to be my fault!
Also, like, it’s an RX350. It’s a lot of things but I wouldn’t call it “engaging” or “rewarding.” Save the effort for the fun stuff 🙂
At least pony up for for parts from OE suppliers, if not actual OE parts, for any vehicle not from the manufacturers formerly know as the big three. And while any name brand battery or wipers will be fine, my God, tell me you actually know better than to think those no-name wipers you bought would be anything other than fodder for this post?!
I’ll second the happy Elise (not her real name) happy life comments below as well. Your time and your relationship could easily be worth that $1200. I feel your pain, but only you can prevent forest fires… I mean make personal financial/relationship decisions.
My advice for David, is to let Elise take care of her car the way she feels comfortable.
Für Elise, the advice is to let David be David.
When one’s partner has some skills they feel pride in (and are objectively skilled in), it is a good idea to accept the gift of their work. My partner is proud of their baking and needlework skills, and sometimes when I mention that I’m going to buy something they immediately suggest making it for me instead. Often it’s better than what I would have bought, sometimes it’s not exactly what I wanted. But I’m always genuinely thankful for the gift and labor of love.
It grinds my gears to pay others to work on my car too, but it comes down to this: you can have money or you can have time, but not both.
And it’s harder to make time than to make money.
This will become even more apparent when you become a parent.
As for parts quality, OEM Lexus/Toyota would be the way to fly. Think about it: Toyotas are some of the most reliable vehicles on the road. Their parts break less. If you have to buy things twice, are you saving any money? At least buy a higher quality, well-reviewed option.
Also NEVER cheap out on brakes.