Today I found myself at the Lexus dealership for my fiancee’s regular checkup of her 2017 RX350. She seems to enjoy going to this dealership, and since I know there’s (resale) value in her continuing to have that car serviced there, I don’t protest. But here’s the thing: Sometimes the dealership suggests expensive repairs that I can do myself for cheap. But I’m starting to get the impression that my fiancee, Elise (not her real name) would rather just have the dealer do it, especially since my last few repairs haven’t quite gone…swimmingly. Here, allow me to voice a few excuses.
For the longest time, I’ve been doing my own work on my cars. It’s saved me bundles, and — at least when it’s relatively easy stuff like brakes and wipers and batteries — I quite enjoy the wrenching. But now I’m no longer dealing with just my own cars; my fiancee is bringing a Lexus into the family. Specifically, an RX350. And her usual practice of taking it to the dealership and having them fix what needs fixing is something that bothers me deeply.
I’ve mentioned this before. The amount of money you can save fixing a car yourself instead of having the dealership do it is insane. A few months ago, we got this quote from the dealership:
$1,120.78 plus tax, so about $1,200 all-in for a basic brake job?! No way. I ordered up the best parts I could find from Advance Auto Parts:
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That only cost me about $400, saving us $800 in total — a total no-brainer Also a no-brainer was the 12-volt battery replacement; I bought a new black brick from Costco and installed it. That seems to have worked well. Then I swapped out the wipers, front and rear. I bought these highly-rated wipers from Amazon:
This all seems well and good. I’m saving us money, helping us get on a path towards prosperity! But lately, I’ve hit a bit of a snag. I think Elise (not her real name) has lost a bit of faith in my wrenching skills, and through no fault of my own! OK, maybe it is my fault to some degree, as I’m reading forum posts now from Toyota folks who say: Just buy OEM parts.
In the Jeep world, you can buy a cheap Autozone part and it’ll almost certainly be no problem I’ve founded after 15 years of wrenching on Jeeps. But it seems that there is a significantly higher percentage of Toyota owners who go OEM. I think, based on my rather limited examples, I’m starting to understand why now. When it came time to replace Elise’s brakes, I went to Advance Auto and got its top-of-the-line Carquest Platinum/Premium pads and rotors. I’ve never had any issues with these, and installing them was a breeze. All the brackets and holes in the rotors and brake pad backing plates fit exactly how they should. I was diligent with installation, I cleaned the hub to make sure it was flat, I used grease where it made sense, and on and on. It was a basic brake job.
And yet, a mere 4,000 miles later the rotors seem to be trashed. There’s tons of brake dust building up on the wheels, and when I tap the brakes at 70 mph, the steering wheel shudders. The windshield wipers, too, are terrible, leaving streak marks all over the glass. My two most obvious repairs had failed, and I think Elise wants to go back to just having the dealer do the job. If I were her, I would, too.
So I’m trying to figure out how to salvage this, because I do think doing our own brake and suspension work is going to save us a bundle long-term. Right now I’m in a weird spot, because the dealership is telling us “hey, this is wrong with your car,” Elise asks me for my opinion, and I naturally always say “I got this.” And it feels like there’s some doubt there from her and some judgement from the dealer. And I’m just there…sitting in the dealership feeling supremely awkward.
Sot I need to step it up; this ain’t some old Jeep I’m dealing with, I’m working on a modern Lexus that needs to be extremely safe and comfortable, and that needs to pass the scrutiny of a dealership that has incentive to instill a bit of doubt in Elise’s mind about my wrenching skills. I just need to remind myself how much I’m saving on labor as I fork over Benjamins to the Toyota parts counter.
And that’s not even addressing another pressing issue, which is: At what point do I just let a shop work on our cars? Time is becoming harder and harder to come by, and while I still am fundamentally opposed to shelling out 1200 bucks on some basic brake work, it’s possible I’ll have to change my mind on that someday as I run out of moments left to spare. I’m no longer a single man with 14 cars and nothing but time.
And then there’s the fact that her dealership does 10,000 miles oil-change intervals, something that may check out scientifically, but that I think is probably a bad idea for someone who does daily short commutes like Elise does. Do I just do the oil changes myself even though she wants to service her car at the dealer and even though it’d look good on a Carfax seeing it was regularly dealer-serviced. It’s entirely up to her, of course, but it’s hard for me — a diehard wrencher — to bite my tongue in the face of a $1,200 bill for some disks and pads.Yikes!
Mostly, I’m curious about how much annual maintenance is on a Lexus at the dealer vs DIY.
I’m nearly into 10 years with factory front rotors and pads on my Mazda. I’m going to change them out in the spring with OEM parts – if they last another 10, I’m probably far past done with the car at that point.
So, one saves $800, but if one maybe never has to do the job on the RX again versus multiple times with the ‘cheap’ aftermarket option, it’s probably a win to have the dealer do it if you value your time and future spouse’s happiness.
A quick glance at my maintenance expenses mostly shows wear items and a handful of minor repairs over the decade I’ve owned it. It’s less than a thousand bucks a year on average (sometimes much lower) but I can’t imagine a Lexus is that hard on consumable cost even if you take the hit on the dealer service. The biggest ticket items I’ve purchased (winter/summer tires) can be quite easily shopped around for.
Mostly, a well-serviced quality vehicle will probably yield more rewards in terms of amortization on longevity. Getting another few years out of that 2017 Lexus by spending a few more dollars on good brakes might be worth it. All the better you don’t have to use up your limited time on mundane things like changing brakes.
Pay me now or pay me later, or in the Autopian version: “There’s nothing more expensive than a suspiciously cheap car.”
Yep. I put cheaper brakes on my Mazda (a 2016 6) and then took it on a family vacation to the Smoky Mountains. The brakes overheated in mountain traffic and squeaked horrendously from that point on. I was amazed at their low quality. Went with the best Raybestos-brand “high performance” pads and rotors I could find on RockAuto after that and haven’t had any issues for years now. Parts quality matters a lot more on some cars.
You naive soul. This is your future wife’s car. Let her do whatever she wants. And do your damnedest to be happy and supportive about it. Even throw on a shirt with a collar, a nice pair of shoes, comb your hair, and ditch the scubby autopian hat when you take her to these service appointments. You will make her happy and get better service because you look like you belong in a Lexus, not a rusty jeep. If she had a sick puppy (or child, wink wink), would you take it to a vet (hospital), or try to treat it yourself? Money spent at your wife’s discretion is always money well spent.
I think you’re learning the value here of having the one good car, that is serviced by a dealer/indie mechanic and will just work.
It provides peace of mind, it should be working when all the other project cars don’t, and gives peace of mind to the SO. Yes it costs more but the tranquility in the relationship is more than worth it
Up until last year, once we could afford to, I started leasing a car for the wife every 3 years. Then it was always under warranty and she could get her work done at the dealership and it kept her happy. Plus she was transporting the kids around town, so I felt better having her drive something modern and dependable. It was worth the extra costs. I continued to buy my cars and keep them for a good long time, while doing maintenance and repairs myself. It worked fine. Now, for the first time in about 20 years, I bought her car instead of leasing. The 2 oldest are at college and there’s just one left at home, so instead of the family hauling SUV, she got the PHEV BMW 330e and she really loves the car so far. I figure with the long EV warranty items, it should be good for a long time (until the Autopian taught me that the AC compressor can kill the whole battery cooling system! Yep, the 330e is the same system as the i3). She typically trusts me enough to do repairs myself now, but I also go to a dealer or trusted mechanic when something is over my head or not worth the trouble.
I guess what I’m saying is, sometimes it’s worth the extra costs or changing what makes you comfortable to keep your partner happy. If this is the biggest compromise you have to make, then it means you found a great partner.
BMW seems to have forgotten how to lease cars – their current offers are really high. Lexus and Mazda seem much better. And yes, if you have a busy life a lease is the way to go – much fewer headaches and warranties.
Although if it is a car without maintenance included, you definitely get the service writer wanting to do bullshit work that needs to be declined – like the $150 brake flush the dealer wanted to do on my Elise’s CX5 which was 24 months old with 24k miles. After significant searching I found the service schedule and, surprise, surprise it was not on the required maintenance.
Acura was the worst, I would get calls from the dealer’s waiting room -“they want to do $700 of work on the car (with all of 10k miles on it)” say no and bring me their quote -which was all inspect this, test that – all complete bullshit that I did in 10 minutes at home. That was the one and only Acura – for that reason alone. The car was pretty good and otherwise they might have gotten a few more leases out of Elise. The Mazda guys are not as bad, but have been trying to push for more than they should.
Considering one of the biggest drivers of lease cost is the projected depreciation of the car, this kind of tracks.
Yep. Depreciation is steep. The best BMW money might be a CPO purchase. We got an 18 month old car with 13,000 miles for about 35 percent off MSRP.
Our leases were always GM. We have a retiree in the family, and employee discount leases were always a decent deal because they would take the full employee discount off the lease cost. Most of our leases of Acadia, Traverse, or Enclaves over the years were in the $280-$380 a month range with nothing down.
Those “required services” are obnoxious. I had my 2016 Mazda6 in the dealer’s service bay in late 2019 to have the Apple CarPlay/Android Auto infotainment software update done, and they came back out with $1,000+ of work the car supposedly needed at just 50,000 miles. No, thank you.
So, I’ve learned that for my Toyota’s at least, its worth springing for the factory brake parts. They are more expensive, but they always last longer and have fewer issues. Im not like that for all parts, and I usually think that a chance to replace a part is a chance to upgrade, but in my experience…Toyota rotors and pads.
As Huibert Mees pointed out last week, Toyota is practically fanatical about quality and certainly beyond the lengths aftermarket suppliers will go to when building less expensive replacement parts. When it comes to Toyota (and probably Honda) OEM is the safest bet. Of course, if something still goes wrong, then it’s down to your wrenching. Bottom line: her car; her way. I’m sure you can think of other ways to demonstrate what a great partner you are.
there’s an exception though. buying oem parts from the actual manufacturers works just as well as buying from toyota directly. brake pads and rotors? Brembo, nbd, plus if you have friends who have a resale license and can get dealer discounts.
need a water pump? denso
need a wheel bearing? aisin
need a drive belt? mitsubishi
shocks? kyb
etc
There’re some obvious spots were semi-reputable aftermarket options, like Bosch Wipers, motor oil, but also obv places where you (an impersonal you) *have* to purchase oem (window trim and door seals, coolant, oil filters).
But money’s there to be saved if people take the time to get the right parts.
when i used to own ford, even the centric stuff was kinda questionable tbh.
No reason why you can’t do the work AND use OEM parts. You still save a bundle.of money, you get your wrenching fix, and you save face with your gal. Win win win.
Buying cheap Chinese wipers on Amazon was a mistake.
Power Stop pads and Centric rotors. Never once had an issue with them, and they’re as cheap or cheaper than the FLAPS brand.
The power stop z26 pads and drilled rotors have worked well so far for me.
This. He went full cheapskate. You never go full cheapskate.
Well..maybe YOU don’t…
This is a “what is she willing to spend” to “happiness in our relationship” ratio. The more expendable income one has, often, the better it is for the relationship to let a 3rd party deal with the headaches.
There are many things I’ll do to my gf’s car, there are some things that she’s incredibly persnickety about that I tell her to take elsewhere. There is a balance to be struck.
That being said, if it’s not under warranty, then maybe the middle ground is finding a reputable private garage to save some of that dealership labour.
Age of the car is everything. If she intends to replace it soon and resale value is important, then let them do it.
If she still has it when it enters the beater phase- say, after she’s quit her job cuz you knocked her up- then hell yeah take full maintenance control. You’ll probably HAVE to.
Swallow your pride and let Lexus service her car. Scratch your wrenching itch with your own fleet. Life will just be better.
Oh Dave,no. Anything newer than say,2015, just take it to the dealer, or a really good specialist, for service, unless you really like buying expensive parts and spending your free time doing the work for free. Anything aftermarket that’s not an upgrade partis trash.
I can think of like ten different things I’d rather be doing-including fiddling around with my bicycles, my model railroad, my cameras, or my MGB-than spending more in parts for my MX-5 and then the same ish amount of time changing the oil, which I then have to figure out how to dispose of.
plus, my nearest Mazda dealer is near like three good restaurants-time it right then go out for a good lunch. Done.
When dealing with Toyota, always buy OEM. I learned that with rotors and shoes as you have. Bought aftermarket twice for a 4runmer and was luckyto get 5k out of each set.
Worse was the starter in my Sequoia that had the 2UZ-FE that required moat of a teardown of the top end of the engine to get to. Bought and Advanced starter and it lasted 11 months and I had to tear it down again.
I don’t have this problem with my Infiniti Fx or Ford Flex. Just the Toyotas.
This. I’ve already gone down the path of aftermarket rotors and calipers on my GX and boy was that a mistake. OEM made it 125,000 miles before warping/seizing, and the aftermarket didn’t even make it 5,000 miles before warping. Our Honda Odyssey has shown it is like the Toyotas as well in this regard.
I haven’t had issues with aftermarket brakes on my wife’s Sienna, but I’ve sworn off aftermarket rear shocks. Not worth a squirt of pee.
Seems like you should price out the jobs with OEM parts, then re-calculate if it’s worth it do DIY the job or not. If the parts are cross compatible with a Highlander, then check out Toyota Culver City (online) for parts. They seem to have the best prices (again, via online ordering) in the area, although I know crossing the 405 can be hard if you want to do local pick-up!
For me, the peace of mind I get from using OEM or OEM-supplier parts is worth the extra cost. Not only am I confident the parts are fit for purpose, I am confident I won’t have to do the job twice. For Japanese cars in general, I’ve had difficulty finding OEM-supplier parts, so I just get OEM most of the time. I always get them from dealerships that sell parts online at a discount.
A bunch of years ago I decided that I was happy to have some work done by professionals on my behalf and save myself the time. And the mess. And the potential injuries.
Now I make time-consuming and potentially-injurious messes only for fun. 🙂
As a fellow Married Man ™ with inclinations towards DIY, the best thing to do is learn to pick your battles. Sure, you can save money by D’ingIY but at a significant cost of time, with her, with the cats, on your own personal projects. But that time has to come from somewhere.
And honestly, there’s a lot of mental, emotional, and other payoff in paying someone else to do a “need to do” so that you can spend your time doing a “want to do.”
I think the real problem is that many cheap to mid-range parts have lost significant quality. Pre covid you used to be able to buy inexpensive parts that were decent quality and not have issues. Now it seems that even midrange parts are iffy. For instance it took me 3 sets of timken set 9 wheel bearings to find a good one, turns out it was pre covid old stock. Especially bad with electrical parts like switches and shocks in my experience.
Unfortunately that is all to true, way too many crappy parts in the market today.
If the brand is a random assemblage of letters and sells on Amazon, don’t count on it being quality. I won’t go full finger-wagging and say never buy them – sometimes sketchy brands are the *only* brands selling what you’re after – but I definitely would not put them front and center in front of someone I love or trust them in any critical applications. FAPIUO is not a reputable brand.
On the other hand, I’d never heard of Viofo before wanting a dashcam for myself…and it’s been running reliably for 18+ months now.
But a dashcam failure is unlikely to put you in the hospital, so taking a chance there is fine.
My main point was actually that Viofo is one of the top names in dashcams, to my understanding, despite being a brand I’d never heard of before I started looking.
But you make a good point….and I empathize with David here because when my van’s shocks got replaced (apparently from the OEM ones?) somewhere well over 100,000 miles, the replacements ones, which were whatever the shop had on hand, barely lasted a few oil changes.
Gotta agree that installing something branded FAPIUO on the SO’s car is a totally self inflicted wound.
If he keeps it up he’ll be FAP’n alone.
But for windshield wipers on a car in LA? I’m a windshield wiper geek so I personally go mid-tier with Rain-X in the washer tank, but I could make do with Amazon wipers for the right price. What’s the worst that happens, the blade wears out too quickly, on a part that’s intended to wear anyways?
As a Canadian your 10000 mile oil change is scary to me. When I had my 2017 forester, the recommended oil changes where 10000 kms, but I did them myself at 8000kms since I live in the cold cold north. I even had a valve on my oil pan since I drove 1000kms a week.
Now I’m driving a 2024 ev6 so no more oil changes on my car, unlike my 2014 pathfinder.
And did you clean and grease your slider pins?
6 years ago I bought a one-owner, low-miles DC Integra. The original owner handed me a full stack of service paperwork, 100% done at her local Acura dealer. That definitely added value to the car for me. Is it worth it? I guess that depends how long you keep the car.
Once your time becomes worth more than the hourly rate of the shop. That’s not just a calculation based on your salary, but so much else too.
Is a Saturday afternoon spent tearing apart my car to save $500 worth more than spending that time with my kids? Not always easy to answer.
Also, I’ve been doing nothing but 10K or annual (synthetic) oil changes on all my cars since new. I really don’t think there’s any issue with that. Surprised a Lexus wouldn’t have an oil life monitor though.
Go old skool parenting: Make your kids earn their keep by tearing apart the car under your supervision from a shaded lawn chair and a cooler full of beer and $500 still in your pocket.
Its a win-win: You get to spend time with your kids and they get something to tell their therapist someday.
My kids are 7, 5, and 2, so while that might be my future I’m not quite ready to trust my car repairs to people who are still mastering coloring inside the lines.
Well, that can be a pretty big ask for some shop techs too..
7 and 5 are old enough to “HOLD THE LIGHT” and “Get the *thing!* THAT *THING* over *THERE!*”
They gotta learn sometime:
AZIZ! LIGHT!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w7jmFz2eryk
A lesson I learned the hard way in my 20s: I only, only offer help with family and friend’s cars when they ask for it first.
I used to be the first person to say “the shop wants $2500 for that headgasket job? Bring it over to my place and we’ll do it together for $500 in parts” but then two weeks later when it’s leaking again because the block was actually cracked the problem becomes mine instead of a warranty issue for a shop. To a non-car person, the risk vs. reward tradeoff for DIY work isn’t intuitive. All they know is that you told them you could do something and it cost them time and money but the problem remains.
The flip side of that is that I will always help when a buddy says “hey, can you teach me to replace a master cylinder? I bought all the parts and watched a YouTube video but I could use a second set of eyes.” If that job goes wrong, you don’t “own” it. They tried something, you helped as best you could, but sometimes you just get a bad part from RockAuto and it leaks on day 1. Learning experience for all, but not a relationship ruiner.
This is the way.
You sorta answered your own question:
If this were a cheap beater out in the country – it doesn’t matter too much what you put on it.
But a modern daily driver? In LA traffic?
You just don’t put garbage parts in a first or second owner, quality piece of machinery where performance and feel is everything.
No matter how “highly rated” it is on Amazon.
Even the guys at the quality independent shops (and there are quite a few in the Westside who I recommend – I sometimes even took my Mercedes to G&R on Santa Monica Blvd) get their parts from the manufacturer’s parts desk.
As an aside – I know that for Mercedes-Benz, Brembo is the OEM supplier of brakes.
I have the feeling this may be the case for Lexus as well – if not, it’s someone of equal quality.
Married guy for a long time top tip: Don’t argue with your wife about things that she finds important.
Let it go and you’ll live a long happy life together.
Just here to say that slate metallic Corolla in the top shot is lookin’ great.