It’s so hard to be an automaker today. Especially an American automaker. There’s a big union fight coming up, automotive financing is getting tough, and China is making it difficult to export key materials. So what’s GM gonna do? Pick a fight with Apple. What? We’ve written about this before, but… what?!? Why?
My head is so confused right now. I’m just so amazed at the audacity of this. Let’s just get right into it.
GM’s CarPlay Move Is So, So, So, So Sketch
Apple CarPlay and Android Auto easily solved a problem that automakers themselves, after much effort, had not solved. It allowed anyone to connect their phone to a car and suddenly access the features they wanted, using a UI they were familiar with, in a fairly seamless way. While early iterations were not perfect, we’ve all become used to it and it has improved in small but meaningful ways.
Now, General Motors is trying to throw this out for its EVs in favor of a self-developed interface (its gas-powered cars will still have CarPlay, for now). The audacity is striking. It’s like me one day deciding to throw out my refrigerator because I’m gonna make better ice. I’m gonna dig a hole in the ground in winter, fill it up with water and sawdust, and come back a few months later and shave off the tastiest damn frozen liquid you ever deigned to drop in an Arnold Palmer.
Or not. The ice maker works fine!
The headline for one of our first stories on this was “GM Getting Rid Of Apple CarPlay And Android Auto Is Such A Ridiculous Risk, I Don’t Think They’ll Actually Do It” and Jason opined:
Apple CarPlay and Android Auto are incredibly popular, with a vast number of car buyers demanding the systems as a prerequisite to even consider a new car. This seems, to me, like a stellar act of not just stepping, but actually stomping, with golf shoes, on one’s own metaphorical dong that I feel confident in predicting that even GM will, at some point in the near future, walk this back. I mean, I hope they do. Or that they prove me wrong about this being a bad idea and I have to eat my own socks.
Well. Get out your golfing shoes because it’s happening and dealers are not super excited about it. From a Detroit Free Press article we get some interesting nuggets from a GM dealer source:
“I don’t even know the name of (GM’s) new system, much less what benefits our customers can expect,” the dealer source said. “Nobody has had any communication from GM. What am I supposed to tell my customers?”
CarPlay is available in basically every new vehicle and it’s now the de facto car operating system. It sometimes doesn’t play well with redundant, in-car systems, but mostly around using features like Sirius XM. Guess what? Apple, which is great at UI, is planning to fix a lot of those issues in its next CarPlay rollout.
What’s GM doing? From the piece above:
People familiar with GM’s system say it will use a Bluetooth connection to provide the same access to phone calls, text messages and audio as CarPlay and Android Auto. It also allows drivers to access built-in features, like SiriusXM and the automaker’s navigation system without having to switch from CarPlay to another display, as is necessary in many vehicles.
However, the GM system will be unable to reach into your iPhone’s contacts list for commands like, “Directions to Carole’s house.”
GM responds that all its owners will have to do is create a contacts list in their Google account.
WHAT?!? I hope you’re all getting ready to walk your uncle through setting up a contacts list in his Google account. I can’t wait for the average Chevy dealer to deliver that line.
This seems so much like GM’s classic bad-timing (i.e. it finally has an EV hit with the Bolt just in time to stop making the Bolt) that it’s almost parody. It’s solving a problem that, it seems, is basically about to be solved.
I have a theory for why this is happening. Carmakers are still committed to the idea of consumers subscribing for car services even if consumers hate the idea. As cars become increasingly digital, those subscription services will be integrated into the infotainment. If someone else controls that infotainment it’s going to get much, much harder to do that.
If this is what’s happening, then this is beancounter-first thinking (another historically GM-trait) and a phenomenally huge risk given that the company is about to launch a bunch of new products into a crowded marketplace and need to start clawing sales back from Tesla (which, famously, also does not have CarPlay). I’m excited about the 2024 Chevy Equinox EV. It has the possibility of being a great product.
Could this kill GM’s EV momentum? I have no idea. I just know the risk is out-of-this-world high. Maybe it’ll pay off!
[Editor’s Note: I, for one, am hoping GM can pull something out of its hat. The company is filled with tens of thousands of immensely capable engineers and product planners, after all. -DT].
The UAW Is Not Playing
You know the cliché about reality TV participants saying “I’m not here to make friends” over-and-over again? Look at the video above. Honestly, if you are not aware of this meme you probably live a fuller, richer life than I do (“This is Flavor of Love, not Flavor of Friendship” is al all-timer, though).
Guess who else isn’t here to make friends? New United Auto Workers President Shawn Fein, whose name does sorta sound like the formerly militant Irish political group in a way I think is almost a little too on-the-noise.
There’s a longstanding tradition of United Auto Workers Presidents shaking hands with automaker CEOs at the beginning of negotiations. But there’s also a tradition of UAW leaders being extremely corrupt and making deals with automakers that weren’t always to the benefit of workers on the line, which is why union members, somewhat historically, sacked the traditional leadership.
I appreciate this story from The Detroit News, which gets right to the point:
Gestures at previous handshake events — particularly a hug between convicted former UAW President Dennis Williams and Sergio Marchionne, the late former CEO of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV before it merged to create Stellantis — have become symbols of the years-long corruption scandal that entailed FCA executives bribing officials of the Detroit-based union.
So, no handshakes. It sounds petty, sort of, but it’s symbolic.
“The members come first,” Fain said in a statement. “I’ll shake hands with the CEOs when they come to the table with a deal that reflects the needs of the workers who make this industry run. When the 150,000 autoworkers at Ford, GM, and Stellantis receive the respect they are due for their sacrifice in generating the historic profits of the past decade, then we can proceed with a handshake.”
‘This is Flavor of Love, not Flavor of Friendship,” indeed.
So, yeah, GM is opening up an invasion on its eastern flank while still figuring out how to deal with battles out west. Moscow by October!
[Editor’s Note: For the record, we are very much here to make friends. – JT]
China Wants To Limit Gallium Exports
Xi Jinping's latest speech emphasizes: 1. Speaking Chinese, 2. Eating Chinese food, 3. Wearing Chinese clothing, 4. Using Chinese products, 5. Traveling in China, 6. Celebrating Chinese festivals, 7. Buying Chinese goods, 8. Having a Chinese mindset (1 of 2) https://t.co/KVOsSZzEUh
— John 'legacy blue check' Voelcker (@johnvoelcker) July 11, 2023
China has decided, somewhat predictably, to de-Westernize. The country has learned enough from Western automakers, Western brands, et cetera, and it’s ready to go out on its own, thank you very much.
Learning about electric cars is just realizing, over-and-over again, that the material necessities of batteries, controllers, and motors are different than the material necessities of gas-powered vehicles, and most of the materials that are needed are made, found, and processed in China.
Today’s thing you maybe didn’t know about and now need to be an expert on? Gallium. Specifically, gallium nitride, which is a light, cheap-to-produce, and super conductive metal that makes on-board car chargers work way, way better.
Guess who makes a bunch of it? China. Guess who doesn’t make a bunch of it? Basically everyone else. Guess what China did? Yup, it decided to limit the export of gallium nitride.
The auto industry is only now recovering from a pandemic-fueled global semiconductor shortage that forced automakers to halt production of some models and in some cases to leave unfinished vehicles standing waiting for a single chip.
Alastair Neill, a director at the Critical Minerals Institute, said that automakers who are in the early stages of designing their next generation of EVs could opt for silicon carbide, even though gallium nitride performs about 30% better, rather than risk a fresh supply chain headache.
“If you are already banking on gallium nitride and designing it into your platform, then you’re in trouble,” he said.
Another front for GM, fantastic!
Used Car Wholesale Prices Are Down, But New Car Dealers Have Fresh Ammo
Used car prices, as measured by Cox Automotive’s Manheim Used Vehicle Value Index (different Mannheim), should start going down. Here’s how Automotive News describes what’s happening:
The Manheim index was 10.3 percent lower last month compared with the same month in 2022, according to Cox. The company also reported nonadjusted figures for the Manheim index — down 3.8 percent in June from May and down 10.1 percent year over year.
The 4.2 percent decline is “among the largest declines in [Manheim index] history” and the largest since the intensification of the COVID-19 pandemic in April 2020, when the index “plunged 11.4 percent,” said Chris Frey, senior manager of economic and industry insights for Cox Automotive.
While most analysts doesn’t seem to think these declines will continue forever (there are not enough cars coming off-lease, for instance), it’s still kinda good news. Will this mean a ton of people flocking to used cars again? Not quite.
Used cars, like new cars, are still financed by a large number of people. The average interest rate for a used auto loan in June for a person with 781+ credit score was 6.79%. That’s pretty high. For a new vehicle it was 5.18%. As CarDealershipGuy pointed out in his newsletter “Some manufacturers are offering special financing for new cars, with low rates that are unattainable for used cars.”
If you can get a 4% APR on a 60-month term for a $50,000 new car with $10,000 down, that’s a $730 monthly payment. Compare that to a CPO car at $43,000 with $10,000 down and a 7% rate and it’s a $650 a month payment. Would you pay $80 more a month for a new car? Maybe!
The Big Question
Is it possible GM pulls this off? Give me odds? 1/100? 1/1000? 1/10?
Order us some golf shoes…
The Android crowd might be flexible, but the Apple folk will be Oh, hell, no.
Then imagine the dealer saying “Google contacts list.” From prospect to pissed off in under 6 seconds.
GMs system wont be able to access your contacts list?Why??
Pretty much every app ever has a list of things they can access on your phone,and many ive used can absolutely see my contacts.
Is this an apple thing?I’ve always had android phones
My 2013 Toyota Entune system can access my contacts list. I don’t understand how this new one doesn’t pull it off.
But that is why everyone hates OEM software like this.
I’ll agree that GM has some talented hardware engineers. See: Cruze Eco that was the most efficient gas (highway) car sold for years after that trim was dropped.
But software? Yeah, nah, they’re crunk if they think they can do better than Apple or Google. Not unless they basically do what Volvo did. Which was shove Google money and tell them “make sure it says Volvo when it boots up and we get the data too”.
Ah yes. Rather than use Android or Apple for “free” to find my way to the closest Taco Bell at 1am, I would much rather have to pay $199/year or some other outrageous price to keep Chevy’s maps up to date, etc. Or they will do some BS where it’s “free” for 3 years (but it its really just rolled into the MSRP) in hopes that somehow $199/year is more palatable when it expires. And if you have multiple cars that require a subscription? GFY!
Well it’s Android Automotive, it just uses Google maps. So in theory you don’t have pay anything to chevy. But you would need a data connection, which you can buy through onstar…
Last week I was riding my bike by a Nissan dealership and saw a new Z in the showroom.
I stopped to look at it, given that I’ve only seen exactly ONE on the road, ever, even though it’s been out for over a year.
The sticker had a $10,000 “market adjustment fee”. I asked (laughing) a sales guy if that’s the reason I haven’t seen any on the road, and he tells me they just lowered the mark-up from $20,000 because they’ve had it FOR A YEAR and haven’t sold it.
I was still laughing long after I left.
Apple App Store and Android Play Store take 30% of everything sold through them. That is why you can no longer buy an e-book on your cellphone Kindle app.
It is also why GM, who is drooling over car subscriptions, is thinking it can go it alone. And Tesla, whose cars have a big Apple overlap, doesn’t have CarPlay, so it can be done. Just not by GM.
Yeah except Tesla fans would buy a car with Elon’s actual shit smeared on the seats and still call him a genius
I hate that my Tesla doesn’t have CarPlay! And actually the Apple Maps routing is better than Google’s so it’s a let down having that in a modern car like Tesla. I hate I can’t choose my streaming video provider (only Disney and Netflix available on the Tesla). I hate I can’t have more games on the big Tesla screen. However, I was told by a Tesla representative that CarPlay is coming to Tesla so I’m hoping for the best (and planning to get a heads up unit to run CarPlay on it in my Tesla).
Now I ain’t no computer wizard. But this GM making their own interface, when we all ready have a pretty good one, seems like a giant exercise and taking the money and lighting it on fire. Could GM do it, sure, they could make something semi-functional given billions of dollars to make the 0011 do the thing. How much are they realistically going to save here, 10s of dollars per expensive car? I know these companies don’t like making friends. One has to wonder, would it benefit both Apple and GM to work together here. Seems like Tim Apple could take a few billion, and give the General something cool. Then the General wouldn’t have to become a software developer, and with that money saved restart Saturn.
This sort of thing is rampant in the modern technocapitalist world – “I can’t do what I want with your standard? Well I’m going to make my own standard! With blackjack! And hookers!”
Imagine if parts and software for vehicles were just brand agnostic? If there were actual standards that were adhered to/complied with? Repairs would be cheaper, economies of scale would be greater, and things would just work.
“But it stunts innovation!” Do you honestly think a brake caliper or a wheel hub or a trim clip is something companies actually innovate on?
But what if your brake caliper was also an NFT and Bluetooth, please invest.
Ah the great & wise Bender Bending Rodriguez, tell GM to bite my shiny metal ass.
FYI the new GM-made infotainment will be Android-based, so they’re not quite working with Apple on this one 🙂
why not work with Microsoft and just make Windows XP car edition? You could finally do whatever people with Excel spreadsheets at freeway in the new Silverado.
I finally took the time over the last week and a half to replace the head unit in my 2012 Prius v with a Pioneer unit with wireless Android Auto (and Carplay, but I won’t be using that), plus a subwoofer. It’s so much nicer than the factory setup, even if the head unit, install kit, and iDataLink interface cost >$1000.
It was like the dashboard was perfectly designed to have no good place to put a phone without blocking something important. Now I won’t need to take my phone out of my pocket at all.
So, I don’t know what GM is smoking here.
Is that the Pioneer head unit where the screen can retract so it fits a single DIN slot? I’ve been thinking of putting one of those in my 85 Toyota for something more modern
Nah…it’s a stationary floating 9″ touchscreen. It is single DIN, but it’s not quite as classy/fancy/discreet as a retracting one. DMH-WT3800NEX if you’re curious.
Crutchfield made the process as easy as it could’ve been.
Really, my only concern at this point is a retrospective “was having no good place to put my phone really worth $1000 to remedy?” but, as an economics major would say, the right price is what people are willing to pay…
Fellow Prius owner, where did you get the install kit for it? I’ve been thinking of doing the same thing after looking at car prices and the fact I can’t get a new Prius today even if I wanted to.
Got the system and install kit from Crutchfield. Once they know the car and system in question, they recommend different tiers of install kits, depending what features you want to preserve (usually just two tiers, a “keep everything” tier and a “bare minimum” tier).
Despite my fears it turned out to be an easier install than expected. I only had to break out the wire strippers for an antenna wire–everything else was just plug and play with harnesses.
The GM system will be good – I thought the setup in my Bolt was excellent. CarPlay is fine, I use it, but I’m blown away by how much angst this seems to be causing. I’ve seen commenters on other articles say they won’t buy a car without it…that’s insane.
Having to use GM’s navigation over Google Maps = no purchase from me, even with the GM employee discount I could get.
It’s funny to me that infotainment is more baked into the car now while cars can last longer than they used to, in-car technology is in flux, and a lot of people get new phones every year or two.
Now should be the time to have swappable head units. Want native Android? The completely unnecessary Amazon Auto? Apple’s car experience? A unit that just does AA or CP? A unit with knobs, buttons, and a screen that only connects to the backup cam? Something with no physical knobs because you don’t understand the benefit of not having to look away from the road? A new one because your preferences or technology change? We could have a great variety of head units, but manufacturers decided to integrate everything.
There’s a large portion of people out there that don’t have CarPlay in their current vehicle and it’s top of their list for their next car which still may be several years out. Not talking Toyota levels of late, but even say 2017-18 it wasn’t standard on every trim level of every car, and even some loaded models of popular vehicles didn’t have it. For a consumer iffy about going electric on their next car, it may make it all that much easier for them to just skip GM when shopping.
Honda’s products on the same architecture will be offering it, so it will be interesting to see if someone can then hack it into the GM products. (On Honda’s site the Prologue preview images have ACP/AA tiles on the infotainment screen and the switchgear is heavily GM, so it’s not like it’s just Honda parts on the Ultium skateboard.)
That said – I don’t think for a second that other OEMs wouldn’t also like to do the same thing or haven’t considered it, just don’t want to take the risk of not offering it. Honda is touting Google built-in in the new Accord Touring for example, though that’s more of a known entity.
In my opinion, of all automakers, General Motors has the most overall engineering firepower/capability. When GM engineers are pointed in the right direction (and that probably doesn’t happen enough, admittedly) they can produce world-beating machines. And this is coming from someone who has never owned a GM and probably never will.
The Camaro ZL1 was just madness given its price, as an example. Then C7 Corvette crushed supercars. And there are plenty of other examples. GM’s product planning maybe needs a bit more work, but engineering skill is there.
GM might have great engineers. But they are not going to be able to attract great software engineering talent because they won’t come even close to keeping up with tech compensation.
I’m in the auto industry (Tier 1) and we are desperate to suck talent out of the tech industry but comp is such a big issue. First, auto doesn’t want to pay those numbers. Second, are you going to have 2 engineers on one project team with the same # of years of experience, but the mechanical guy makes $95K and the software guy makes $180K? Now your mechanical guy is checked out.
I have to agree. GM does make great vehicles. And their engineers for that are great, but on the software side, they don’t have enough. That goes for most other manufacturers as well. Overall, using Android Auto or Carplay is much easier on everyone, but they are very resistant to it.
But wasn’t the C8 Vette delayed 12-18m because the frame couldn’t handle the original load resulting in it twisting & bending? Had to be re-engineered to strengthen the frame? Guess they were not pointed in the right direction LOL
General Motors, who has arguably been perfecting mediocrity for 50 years or so, is going to screw up something that works fine? Color me shocked. Shocked, I say.
Matt, y’all are completely on the wrong side of history here with the native Android head unit thing, and I can’t wait for you to be forced to admit it.
The reason you are all wrong is obvious – and the tell is that you keep mentioning “Doing away with CarPlay” – You’re all Apple zealots with no experience with Android.
A native Android head unit is light years better than a generic system that uses CarPlay and Android Auto.
Caveat: The only way GM can screw this up is if they get greedy and limit access to Google Play so they can force you to buy subscriptions to inferior GM apps. Which is something they are completely capable of doing. All bets are off if they go that route.
There’s the issue I expect. GM keeps talking about this as some sort of in-house special project, so I assume it’s not just natively Android. I’m hoping to be pleasantly surprised, because GM looks to be offering EVs I might want to buy, but I have to know how much they’re locking this down.
I’m not an Apple zealot, but I’m sick and tired of everything I use needing a different account and password into a different ecosystem. At least carplay works with what I’ve got and I don’t have to sign up for one more thing.
Or do it like some Stellantis vehicles where you get a great sized touch screen but you have to use their maps, etc with no support for Play/Auto. And then to add insult to it, attempt to bill you $199/year for map updates, etc.
Totally agree about Android. I wouldn’t consider Apple. It’s inscrutable to me.
Coming soon to a Google search near you, “How to disable GM’s infotainment system without affecting the warranty.”
Used prices going down? Might be time to sell my 10 year old 4Runner that’s still worth close to what I paid for it 4 years ago.
GM is being GM. I didn’t know I’d love Applecarplay so much until I had it (even if it occasionally discos for 10 seconds). I don’t get the appeal of wireless. Maybe it’s that I get the cheapest, smallest phone and keep it until it’s unusable due to age or because I threw it in anger (only happened once because everyone knows not to put me on group chats now or doesn’t talk to me at all, which are both wins), but my battery would never be able to handle operating in the car and even just being on at work without recharging, which makes wireless pointless. Then there’s Bluetooth itself and poor old Harold would surely be pissed to have such an unreliable shitty interface. I have never had a BT device either hold connection consistently and for any significant time without at least developing some kind of glitch. Even the Mid Century radio cabinet I renovated with a Yamaha BT receiver will start to make a noise like a CD with a scratch in it if used longer than an hour or so that it does not do otherwise. Is it just my bad luck/everywhere I’ve used it has too much adjacent RF interference that dozens of different pieces of hardware using BT make it appear like the most suck ass communications protocol ever overhyped or is everyone else way more tolerant of glitches and incompetence? Or a bit of both?
I agree with the benefits of phone silence, and also with the faults of bluetooth. My phone has a headphone jack that has stopped working – forcing me to use bluetooth. I don’t like it. I’ve been using it in one form or another since its introduction and although bt’s come a long way, it’s still no match for a cable most of the time.
I feel like the only time I ever restart my phone is because of a bluetooth issue.
“This leaves dealers with a choice: eat shit or die.“
Can’t it be both?
GM didn’t do a great job with CarPlay in my 2017 Volt. Not even kidding it works about 60% of the time. The other times I have to turn off the car, open the door, and restart it to get it to work. And this isn’t even wireless CarPlay.
I used to say that CarPlay was mandatory for me when looking for a new car. However, I was recently in a rental that had CarPlay, but it was not wireless, and now I say that Wireless CarPlay is mandatory for me when looking for a new car.
1/infinity (aka zero)
You stole my thunder!
I’ll admit that I have never used Android Auto (It didn’t exist when I bought my current car, and whenever I drove rentals that had it I was in too much of a hurry to get where I was going to fiddle with pairing it), but it can’t be any worse than the OEM systems. The system in my current 2014 car felt dated when it was new, and seems to have gotten slower over the years (either that or I have gotten more impatient). Entering an address into the navigation is a slog, and searching by name isn’t much better.
It strikes of hubris that car companies think that they can develop software better than software companies can. I guess they can hire a bunch of hotshot software developers (It’s a buyer’s market right now with all the recent tech layoffs), but when there already exist systems that people like, why not just use those?
—
The handshake snub is stupid and performative. Anyone who watches their negotiator refuse to shake his counterpart’s hand and thinks that gesture means anything is a fool.
Now I kind of want to go on a reality show to make friends. Every time they interview me, I’ll say something like: “Oh, I don’t care about the competition; I’m just here to make friends!”
The Great British Bake Off
Android Auto is irrelevant here, though. GM isn’t going to be using it.
A native Android head unit is so superior to Android Auto, it doesn’t even merit comparison.
Google’s policy for supporting Android in its Pixel line of phones is three years. What is or will be Google’s policy for supporting Android Auto? I ask because the average age of automobiles in the US is 12.5 years, and I doubt that will decrease anytime soon.
Like Apple or not, the company offers support and software updates for its iOS devices for long time.
My 2017 Volt has no issue with Android Auto. The app on the phone is the part that updates, the firmware hasn’t done an update in a while. But it is having no issue.
Your rants are really harshing any small desire I had for a new(er) ride. Or a cell phone. Or even a microwave. Thank you. I’ll be sticking with the devils I know.
They’re also making me wish I had more enthusiasm or at least comprehension of whatever the hell it is you do.
I’d be game for in-car subscriptions for features, but only if they give me the car for free. The idea of paying for a vehicle that is vastly overpriced to begin with, and then be chained to paying monthly subscriptions? Nope. Not happening. I’ll drive my 2018 with no subscription-connected features (but with apple car play) until it explodes.