If any automaker’s caught flak on the internet for its own questionable decisions lately, it’s BMW. From bizarre styling to some excessively heavy products, there are plenty of reasons for enthusiasts to clown on the Bavarian brand, and here’s a new one. The 2025 BMW M235 sees the adoption of a new badge convention, and the culture has some feelings about it.
One notable difference is that there’s no more “i” for fuel injection as that letter’s now reserved for electric models. After all, every BMW with a combustion engine is fuel-injected now anyway. However, deletion of that letter isn’t what’s getting people in a puff this time, nor is the M prefix alone doing all the lifting in this instance of outrage.
Instead, BMW’s put the “35” bit of M235 in what can almost be described as subscript, and that’s rattled the cages of some enthusiast customers that BMW really shouldn’t be upsetting. Keep in mind, the M235 looks like a regular compact sedan and is based on a front-wheel-drive platform usually found under Minis. Not the most M thing out there, right?
Over on the populous BMW enthusiast forum Bimmerpost, things aren’t going well for the new M235, with specific mention of the badge. As one commenter who claims to own an M2 CS, one of the best modern M cars, wrote:
Now I skimmed the above in 10 secs, for the record…but screams to me as further dilution of the dedicated M brand…most telling from the rear end with the quad tips / big M2(small35)…soon enough, maybe we’ll make an M2 SUV as well and a 4 door 1 series! Really loved this brand…but with every new model release, that love is fading. Now, the real question – will my love affair with the E46 / E9X / F87 be impacted by the direction the brand is heading…a few years ago, I thought it didn’t matter…but that’s changing…
Yeah, it’s not so great when people who seem to buy actual halo products are putting a product on blast like this. Oh, and there’s a whole lot more where that came from.
Well, that’s a bunch of people with full-fat M cars in their signatures and bios and avatars putting the new M235 Gran Coupe’s badging on blast, and more importantly, they’re people with recent examples of those cars. If I were a brand, I wouldn’t want to upset those sorts of customers. Oh, and the distaste for this new badging convention doesn’t just stop at one forum.
On a post specifically about the badging in the private Facebook group Anti-BMW BMW Club, one commenter let the following rip:
Just when I thought the new 2 series couldn’t get any worse aesthetically. BMW is really going for every bad decision they can make.
The vitriol’s spilling over into real life, too. As a friend of David Tracy summed up the M235 Gran Coupe:
It’s an enormous poser. And BMW is pushing the posing. To make the 35 smaller font and essentially have an M2 badge on it is dismissing the meaning of the M badge even more than M Sport and M SUVs. Calling it an M235 was bad enough. There was a real M235i. I raced one
So, how did we get here? About a decade ago, BMW rolled out the first of what many enthusiasts call M-Lite models by replacing the 135i coupe with the M235i coupe. Yep, to cash in on the appeal of the M brand, BMW slapped M Sport goodies on a selection of higher-output not-full-M cars, slapped the M badge in front of three-digit names, and proceeded to collect checks. It was still controversial back then, but at least the initial approach had some level of exclusivity to it. At the time, few predicted that the M2 would happen, and with the 2 Series coupe being the smallest rear-wheel-drive BMW sold in America, the M-Lite was a neat consolation prize.
However, over the past decade, the M-Lite branding has expanded to just about every model in BMW’s lineup. It’s weird to see a motorsport badge on a giant X7 SUV, or an electric 5 Series that’s not track-focused in the slightest, but it’s not as weird as seeing this new badge configuration.
By badging the 35 bit of the M235 in differing font sizes, BMW appears to be trying to tie this entry-level sedan in with an actual performance car that already exists. See, there is an actual BMW M2, and it’s a 453-horsepower rear-wheel-drive sports coupe with an available manual transmission, a limited-slip differential, beefy brakes, stiff suspension, and all the sort of serious hardware you’d expect from an M car. It’s about as far away from a stretched Mini sedan in Dodge Dart-aping bodywork as you can get, and if anything, minimizing the engine description numbers on the M235’s badge and seemingly trying to lump this sedan in with the M2 coupe is more likely to hurt the M brand than help the sales of this particular car. Add in the perspective that this badging makes it seem that being a BMW alone wouldn’t make the M235 sporty enough, and that ought to worry important people in Munich.
BMW’s identity for most of the past 50-plus years has been as a maker of performance luxury cars. Even many of the slower ones like the E30 318i still drew acclaim for the way they drove, and there was this sense of authenticity that permeated the lineup. No matter whether you bought a 3 Series or a 7 Series, it would still drive like a BMW. That was the defining characteristic, the thing that made BMW a success story, partly because authenticity is cool. Even yuppies knew that, and in their cosmopolitan greed-is-good pursuit of the finer things in life, they helped elevate cars like the E30 3 Series from curious foreign automobiles to new status symbols.
Zoom in on 2024, and the current BMW lineup is known more for controversial styling than providing an outstanding driving experience. Well, controversial styling combined with heavy performance cars and a focus on gadgets. Many long-time BMW enthusiasts aren’t fans of this current direction, but that doesn’t matter because BMW’s market share is still rising. Last year was BMW’s best-ever sales year in America, and at the end of the day, that’s what keeps the lights on.
However, it might not necessarily keep the lights on this brightly forever. See, mainstream luxury brands need people to buy and covet their high-end halo cars because those actions reinforce status. Devaluing the M badge in turn devalues the BMW badge, and if the customers that make a brand desirable start to leave, well, you kind of end up with Cadillac circa 1998.
As it stands, BMW isn’t the same sort of enthusiast brand it once was. The only constant is change, and sometimes your old favorites move on from catering to your needs. The badging on the M235 is just a symptom of change, a new direction that’s working for now, but may or may not work forever. After all, if you want to know what the yuppies who made BMW big in North America drive today, just ask your local Porsche salesperson.
(Photo credits: BMW, Bimmerpost, Facebook)
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There are few things in life that I enjoy more finding out someone is a BMW enthusiast/purist and promptly finding a way to mention that I think M-sport or any other BMW with an M in the name and more than one number after it is a “real M car”
It’s kind of like if you meet someone who went to Harvard and you pretend to have never heard of that school before.
The M###i cars actually came FIRST, before the original M1 and M3. They ARE as real as any other “M” car. None of which are particularly “real” past the e30 and e28 M3 and M5 (and given it was NOT a homologation special like the M3, the original M5 is arguable too). All since are really just marketing to pry more dollars out of the punters.
I loved ’70s-’10s BMWs, but they are rather dead to me today. Which is fine, I have my pair that I will likely keep forever, and e91 and an e88, both 2011 vintage 28i’s. Peak BMW, IMHO, before the shark jumping began.
“The M###i cars actually came FIRST, before the original M1 and M3″
Um – No.
Actually, yes: though I don’t think the e12 M535i was ever sold at US BMW dealers.
Actually – No.
The M535i began production in April 1980.
https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/magazine-article-pool/bmw-m535i-e12.html
The M1 started production in 1978.
https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/magazine-article-pool/bmw-m1-from-procar-to-icon.html
“The first official M-badged car for sale to the public was the M1, revealed at the Paris Motor Show in 1978. The M1, however, was more of a racecar in domestic trim than an everyday driver. The direction of the M cars changed with the 1979 release of the M535i, which was a high performance version of BMW’s popular 5 Series mid-size sedan.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M
Um – yes. Does no one here actually have any inkling of BMW outside of the United States?
https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/magazine-article-pool/bmw-m535i-e12.html
The M1 was technically SHOWN first, but the first one to be actually sold was the M535i after all the production mess that the M1 went through. And of course, as a four door sedan it was rather more important to the brand than a supercar made in tiny, tiny numbers.
They are just having their Audi S-Class moment.
Watching a sporty badge get replaced with a cosplay-friendly badge but keep the same name….
They get sales from the fools until the informed let them know they were duped.
Absolutely no one cares but some keyboard warriors who are never going to buy them new anyway.
My suggestion for BMW’s naming hierarchy, using the 2 series as an example.
235, m235, turbo235.
My suggestion would be just to go to the parts department or your local hardware store and buy a 3 and a 5 in the desired size!
I always thought the Saab 9-3 and 9-5 badging with the second number as subscript looked classy, but then these are BMW fanatics we’re talking about here, not people with taste 😛
“After all, if you want to know what the yuppies who made BMW big in North America drive today,…”
We yuppies who made BMW a big deal are now in our 70s and 80s and most likely driving something comfortable and low-maintenance, maybe with a rack for a mobility device on the back.
This is me trying to figure out BMW’s naming scheme right now:
https://uploads.dailydot.com/2023/11/charlie-day-meme.jpg?q=65&auto=format&w=1600&ar=2:1&fit=crop
Cool: now I can swap my M badge for a WRX one and call it a protest
What this all really speaks to is the success BMW has had over the years in putting out driver-focused cars. They brought in a LOT of customers who really appreciate tight cars that handle very well but which can also hold four people in reasonable comfort. Great daily drivers for folks who want to fling the car down a canyon road on their day off. Now, BMW has recognized that they can sell more cars to people who’ve never driven a car quickly on a twisty road so long as they’re plush and full of the latest techno-gizmos, and that those folks can be suckered into thinking they’ve bought an “ultimate driving machine” with cosmetics that have an “M” on them. Of course the previous group of customers is understandably disappointed! Brand loyalty is a real thing. If the Foo Fighters pivoted to doing nothing but obscure French opera or the Oakland A’s decided to sell off all of their good players and turn their stadium into an ugly pit and move to Vegas (oh, wait a minute), their fans would be pissed, too. The current long-term BMW fans will get over it someday and maybe even buy Bimmers, once they’re in their 80’s and don’t drive over 55 mph, anyway.
“Brand loyalty is a real thing.”
But it’s often a one-way thing.
Ultimately, yes. But BMW fostered that loyalty for many years. That all makes their (perhaps inevitable) switch to making cars for a different demographic all that harder for the loyalists to take.
Brand loyalty is sort of a hopeful, willful naivete that has the loyalists imagining the company is in business just to please their customers, not primarily to make as much money as they can.
I guess, but it also appears to be a part of human nature.
It just doesn’t matter. Those of us who loved the feel of BMWs of the past are such a tiny minority that we simply don’t matter. Look at how many people LOVE the naked mole rat look (or the Bangle-mangles before them). Tastes change, and if BMW still tried to make nothing be e30s they would have long since gone bankrupt.
Doesn’t mean I have any interest in buying any more new ones, but I freely admit I am simply not the target market anymore. They absolutely, 100% know what they are doing, and are smiling all the way to the bank these days. Thankfully, plenty of low-mile creampuff examples of the BMWs that I like out there. And they are lots cheaper than the new ones – bonus!
I am happy that I got to do European Delivery for a pair of new ones. Still have the first one, e91 6spd RWD 328i wagon, plan to be buried in it. The second one, well, that M235i just did not inspire the love from me for various reasons and it was fairly quickly traded for a GTI Sport (that I was a fool to part with – sigh).
https://9gag.com/gag/a5RGrrL
s/non-BMWs/non-real-M-cars
Bring back the BMW of the bunny ad. You know the one.
Easy fix: make it a lower-case m.
With a clown face in the middle.
To me peak BMW was the 1994-1995 BMW M5. It was the best looking BMW, could be had with a manual transmission and had just the right mix of luxury and sport. I wish I could find one in great condition and be able to afford it.
Just like attaching the Mustang name to an electric crossover, carmakers only see dollar signs related to their performance marques. As long as people buy the cars, the shareholders are happy, and carmakers will continue doing it.
Welcome to the 21st century, brought to you by Pepsi. We don’t care about the consumer, only our stock price.
Haven’t you heard?
In late-stage Capitalism – Consumers are not the customer.
Shareholders are the customer.
“The bottom line” i.e. monetary considerations (usually in the form of short term quarter by quarter financial results only) with “our only responsibility is to return maximum value to our shareholders” thinking goes back easily to the rise of Economist Milton Friedman in the 1960s and 1970s.
https://www.britannica.com/money/Milton-Friedman
The legal entity of a corporation goes back to roughly 1100-1200 a.d. short story starting w/Italian exploration (and certainly often exploitation) of other areas of the world. With an passive partner (‘investor’) that would fund the voyage and a ‘managing partner’ that typically had little to (more often) no financial investment in funding the voyage.
https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2018/11/18/a-brief-history-of-the-corporate-form-and-why-it-matters/
I mean even the actual M BMWs are shit at this point so it seems a lost cause now.
Ahh, the internet, outrage, vitriol, shouty, shout, shout, don’t buy one, no one has a gun to your head.
I get the outrage. But this has been happening for so long I hardly care anymore. You can get the M badge on almost anything. At one point it was reserved for special models. Now, it might just mean sportier wheels and some stripes on the grill. They’ve been cheapening the M brand for the better part of the last 20 years.
I find that the best course of action as concerns modern BMW is to care as little as possible.
Insert any brand of any product in there.
Indeed.
The most irritating thing about modern consumerism is that people get irrationally attached to brands (example: Steve Jobs-era Apple products) and make it a marker of personal identity. Religion of the 21st century, almost. Ugh. ‘The Internet’ is just a mouthpiece for people with no filter (yes, I am aware of the irony of typing this on the internet).
The older I get, the less I care about all the nonsense. They’re consumer products built by huge faceless companies, because the automotive industry works mostly at a scale that really prevents real personal interaction. Some cars are good, some are less good. Some I like, some I’m indifferent to. If Mazda kills the Miata, I’ll be disappointed, but the sun will rise the next day.
I like my car, because I enjoy driving it. What BMW does with the M-brand is mostly irrelevant to me if I’m not driving one of their cars. The ‘purity’ badge on the back is second to the bigger concept IMO: Do you like driving the car?
If you do? Who cares what badge it has. If you don’t? The badge isn’t worth the plastic it’s molded into.
The M badge as option package dates back to the late 70s in the rest of the world. <shrug>
A lot of other brands do the same thing. Chevrolet has done it with the SS badge. At some point the markers become meaningless. At the end of the day the companies really are just out for money, so I get it.
9 out of 10
prison inmatesBMW buyers can’t tellBaconesqueM-style from realBaconM.For 90% of BMW buyers (and really more like 99.9%), the M### are more fit for purpose than the M# cars anyway,
It’s cool how KIA is now selling cars with black wheels that are pre-curbed for you.
Wish I could buy a new E30 318is
You and me both – I had two of them.
Though if you are implying that BMWs look like KIAs, don’t be ridiculous – KIA, and everyone else, copies BMW.
If KIA is copying BMW, then BMW’s styling is worse than I thought.
I don’t think that is actually possible. though I will say that they seem to have reached peak hideous and are slowly getting better. There is some hope on their latest concepts (the naked mole rat look seems to be going by the wayside), but I can’t stomach the screens, screens, screens, not enough screens interiors.
And ditching iDrive for gestures (W.T.F.!) and touch is giving me the vapors. Sigh.
This is really dumb. BMW is forgetting that real M enthusiasts are an angry bunch. Also, if all your cars are special M’s, none are special.
They don’t butter BMW’s toast like the scores of buyers getting dolled up versions of their regular cars.
Well, at least they drive like they’re an angry bunch…
The model badge looks like something I’d expect on one of those new KN cars.
Your ending phrase about all previous BMW-driving yups buying Porsches is funny (and a bit sad) because when Porsche released the Cayenne Al Ries (a marketing strategist) predicted that Porsche would dilute and weaken their brand image and positioning, coasting off the 911’s success for a while but ultimately hollowing out the brand. We all know how that turned out for Porsche.
I wouldn’t worry about diluting the BMW brand too much. Make the grill bigger and maybe all those Porsche-driving yups might switch back again.
If only it was that simple – my day-dream car shopping suggests that any equivalent Porsche is tens of thousands more than BMW. When doing said shopping I hate that I need to remember to keep scrolling past the number-series-ed cars and all the way to M if I want to see what is available for 340i’s. Porsche is getting slightly more consideration now that BMW no longer has physical buttons & knobs – this used to make them much preferred to the Porsche which had the goofy touch-screen buttons.
Or is it just subscript denoting that there are 35 M2’s to form this molecule?
They’re catering to the overwhelming majority of people who drive BMWs: people who lease. They want the best badge for 2 years, then onto the next. Reliability or a logical number system doesn’t matter if it gets traded within 2 years, then sold to some poor dummy who thinks BMW still equals the ultimate driving machine.
BMW is not making cars for, or going after the people who keep their cars 10+ years. Those years are long behind us.
I live in Ottawa, and the only people who drive BMWs are diplomats and new students from overseas, take a guess to how many of those ‘sales’ are leases.
This is the case with all German luxury brands other than Porsche. They are built to last through a lease and then an additional year or two after that when they’re sold certified. Once that clock hits they quite literally self destruct. 60,000 miles tends to be the danger zone for modern German cars.
Solid take. Can confirm. 2008 X3 Msport with regular maintenance and stored in heated garage got real crappy by 2015… so many leaks and repairs needed but my 250,000 mile Silverado just kept going without issues. Huh ????
I went on the record as saying I actually like the styling of this and that I don’t hate the idea of a FWD based performance luxury car. I don’t think even the biggest curmudgeons out there would try to argue that an S3, Integra Type S, etc. are invalid. There’s space for it in the market and at the price point because you might be able to woo a few Civic Type R/Golf R/etc. buyers, and like it or not a lot of people would rather have an automatic and Honda/Acura will never offer one in the CTR/ITS.
…but this shit is rather infuriating, and while I try my best to have a live and let live attitude towards what people want to drive this really does scream poser. I mean…the M2 is a weighty name in car enthusiasm and this definitely feels like it’s stealing the M2’s valor….and I can’t help but picture an obnoxious 20 something tech bro leasing one and telling everyone he has an M2. Cringe.
Also, if anyone cares about another update, my Kona N had the exact same issue again and they’re telling me it may need a full engine replacement. At 15,500 miles. Absolutely unbelievable. The horror stories of the Ns blowing up are really piling up on the forums as well, so if you’re thinking of one, please skip it. Most of us are in a world of pain right now and you know something is very very fucked if they’re talking about replacing the entire engine.
I thought I’d give Korean cars a chance. Never again. Fingers crossed that Hyundai will even cover it because they LOVE denying warranty claims. But if that happens they’ll have to deal with my attorney. Anyway-has anyone gone through a manufacturer buy back before? I’m planning on calling corporate and at this stage the ideal outcome is probably forcing Hyundai to buy the damn car back….but I know it’s a very long shot.
Damn dude. Sorry to hear about the N! Yeah Hyundai has to deny warranty claims to stay in business at this point because if they paid them all they’d be bankrupt by now. Good luck and keep us posted. Getting them to buy it back only really happens if you can get it declared a lemon and it has to be down for a specific number of days in a year or something like that so that’s unfortunately not likely.
Fortunately for Hyundai everything about the car went to shit immediately after it wasn’t lemon-able anymore! How convenient. I lost AC before all of this nonsense as well.
So sorry to hear about this – you had been really enjoying this car!
And he’d been convincing me this sort of thing was a great route to everyday fun behind the wheel. Damn. Sorry to hear about it Nsane and hope it’s resolved to your satisfaction!
Ouch. Sorry to hear that the problem is back. I’ll cross my fingers for a resolution that is in your favor on the N. I like the styling on them, and am sad to hear the mechanical side can’t hold up.
I’m not the only one either. Elantra and Kona Ns are grenading left and right.
Well this certainly doesn’t make me feel better about the future for my VN. Best of luck getting your issues resolved.
That flat sucks. I’ve enjoyed your nuanced advocacy of the Kona N and hate to hear that it’s now a pita
It sucks because it’s genuinely a great car and I’ve loved it. But for the engine to potentially be shot at 15,500 miles? That’s absolutely inexcusable….especially for a dedicated performance model.
I had a Camry bought back after the Toyota snap ring incident of 2006 (15,000ish cars effected with the new transmission design?). Toyota was totally upfront about offering to install a new transmission with a 100,000 mile warranty or buying the car back for full price. I took the latter and bought an Acura TL. Much better choice if just for the TL smiles. Man, I loved that car.
Honestly if they offered to buy it back I think I’d go get an Integra
I missed the update but am now curious – if you could link/point to your last update(s)? A coworker and I were just marveling about the Elantra N too, that really stinks.
What happened initially is about a month ago the car went into limp mode. It wouldn’t rev over 2,000 and the check engine light came on. This coincided with a fix for a recall that many of the Ns were affected by being announced and was basically what was described in the recall. The dealership did the update for the recall, which basically involved some reprogramming.
This worked for all of two weeks. The same exact thing happened again on Saturday, but more violently. The car shook and made a loud crashing noise pulling out of a lot, and it went into limp mode again. I limped it right back to the same dealership, politely asked “yo what the fuck?” and they found the exact same code as last time came up: P132600, which had to do with the knock sensor. They told me they needed to wait until today for the master technician to take a look and sign off on everything.
Basically when I dropped the car off today they pulled up my ticket and were like “just to make you aware every time we’ve seen this it’s led to a full engine replacement”. They’re gonna give me the final word tomorrow, but none of this is encouraging…and poking around the internet about Hyundais and that code leads to a never ending sea of horror stories and owners in assorted states of distress.
Hoping for the best, expecting the worst. I’ve heard of Hyundais sitting for years waiting for engine replacements…as far as the Elantra N, DO NOT CONSIDER ONE. They’re having huge issues as well. Pretty much every car blog has a “Hyundai N owner’s car kerploded at (insert low number) miles” story. They’re piles of junk. Get a spicy Civic.
Thanks for recapping it out, sorry you had to relive it while so fresh lol. Fortunately for me the N is more than I need for what amounts to a spirited daily driver; my coworker does have a warm Civic derivative and I’m likely heading in the same direction. It’s really too bad, the H/K products my family had from the late ’00s era were decent enough and were getting closer, and I want to recommend more of their late products but the patterns are patterning too much with all the different issues.
Spicy Civic. What’s funny is that I just watched a Youtube where they had a race driver compare the stock version of the Corolla GR and the Civic Type R, and the Civic was 2 seconds faster, but the driver said the R mode was almost unusable on track because the suspension setting is so stiff. He was bouncing everywhere and said it was the bounciest ride he has ever been on, racing cars included. He did much better in Sport mode. So if you want to track the Spicy Civic, perhaps do a suspension upgrade.
Or just get an Integra Type S and don’t risk voiding your warranty. The harshest setting on Integra is equivalent to the sport setting on the CTR and the softest setting is much softer than the CTR’s. It’s a pretty perfect car, and maybe I should’ve waited, saved my money, and bought one of those instead of a Hyundai N that offed itself before it hit 16,000 miles….
Sorry to hear, appreciate you telling everyone here and warning us in the auto community, something that catrostrophic would turn me off a brand forever too. Currently I have Ford and BMW in my ban book, with my friends issues with Hyundai and your experience, might have to add them to the list as well.
Adding Kia/Hyundai to the ban book would be wise. It’s not just the N cars, I had 3 family members who made the mistake of buying Hyundai all at the same time. One had a Sonata, one a Santa Fe, and one the Veracruz. All but the Veracruz blew the engines below 60k. The Sonata was the only one kept long term, and it proceeded to then need a new engine every 20k until the fourth went in and she finally sold the POS. All covered under warranty, but on the third and fourth engines they tried to make her pay labor.
They’re lucky their engines made it 60k! Mine is dead at 15.5k. Can’t beat that Korean craftsmanship!
They were all non turbo. While 15k is ridiculous and never ok, I do feel like it’s easier to forgive in a performance car vs in a commuter. If the standard Corolla needed engines as often as most cars need oil changes, it would be a huge problem, if the GR did the same, it would still be not ok at all, it is more understandable that a heavily boosted engine has issues vs a low power normal car.
It might not have the dub badge. But it gave you the full Volkswagen experience! Like a vampire in The Lot, everything is turning into the Questionablewagen.
At least the smaller numbers might make it easier to forget that “35” means “2.0L 4 cylinder” now.
Welcome to
who’s line is it anywayBMW and Mercedes, where thepointsnumbers don’t matter.If you take 5 and subtract the 3, you get 2 (2.0 liter). Makes perfect sense.
“And it’s all made up Anyway!”
I’m still annoyed that my 1989 E34 535i was really only 3.4 litres of glorious straight six.
Don’t get me started on my E36 323i with its surprise bonus 2.5 litre six. The badge was still a lie, and just to make the 328i seem worth buying.
I debadged my last BMW, it seemed the most honest option.
The 328 did have 23 more HP than the 323.
Was that after you sold your 5.0L Mustang GT that only had 4.94889L?
I’m very happy with my Toyota GT86 despite it being 6.6 litres too small.
Ha, I still occasionally annoy my brother by reminding him that his E39 530d with the D1 M57 is in fact only 2.9 litres.
Also, try down badging, it’s refreshing and fun