Home » The Tesla Cybertruck Climbing Up Hell’s Gate Tells Me Tesla Is Dialing In Its Traction Control System

The Tesla Cybertruck Climbing Up Hell’s Gate Tells Me Tesla Is Dialing In Its Traction Control System

Cybertruck Dialed In Ts1
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There’s been lots of talk about the Tesla Cybertruck’s off-road capability. First, the vehicle struggled to go up a basic slope at a California off-road park; then Ford CEO Jim Farley publicly poked fun at the Cybertruck and I made it clear that The Cybertruck will still kick the Ford’s F-150 Lightning’s ass; then there was a video of a Cybertruck getting stuck in snow and being pulled out by a Ford; then there were various other videos of the Cybertruck seemingly struggling in the winter. So if the Cybertruck is so bad off-road, then what’s with this new video from Tesla showing the truck climbing up one of the most challenging off-road obstacles on earth? Let’s take a look.

I’ve written about the Tesla Cybertruck’s off-road capability a few times because I have a background in off-roading, and there’s lots of bullshit flying around that needs to be broken down. My first article was in response to all the fanboys claiming the Cybertruck was going to be the best off-road vehicle ever. It’s not. It’s too big, and its four-wheel drive system probably isn’t ever going to match a fully locked system when it comes to rock crawling.

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Then Ford CEO Jim Farley tweeted that video of the Lightning handily climbing a grade that had apparently made a Cybertruck prototype struggle in another online video.

This time, I defended the Cybertruck because I know it has more off-road potential than Ford’s offering, the F-150 Lightning, largely due to the Tesla’s favorable geometry. The title of my article was “Ford CEO Takes Shot At Tesla Cybertruck With Off-Road Video Of F-150 Lightning, Which Is Going To Get Its Ass Kicked.”

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Here’s why I claimed the F-150 Lightning would get its ass kicked by the Cybertruck:

The video shows a prototype Tesla Cybertruck. It won’t take much to vastly improve that traction control system to better get the motors’ power down to the ground to propel the vehicle forward. That’s just software. Is it going to be as good as a mechanical locker? Maybe not! Or maybe Tesla will actually offer a locker for the two wheels on the same axle — regardless, even if the Ford’s traction control system is better than the Tesla’s, torque transfer is only a small part of the off-road equation. The biggest slice of the off-road pie is all about geometry, and in that area, the Cybertruck is probably going to demolish the F-150 Lightning.

[…]

To be clear, the Cybertruck’s geometry — even at max ride height — isn’t going to be amazing, simply by virtue of it being a pickup that needs four doors and a bed, but there’s no way it’ll be as bad as the F-150 Lightning’s, so when the time comes for a head-to-head, I have no doubt that the Lightning will be left in the dust. But for now, while Tesla is still working on the Cybertruck, it’s Jim Farley — who runs a car company that sells an EV pickup truck that you can buy today at a dealership — who fairly gets to have a bit of fun on Twitter.

When it comes to off-roading, geometry is king, and if you’re Ford, and your F-150 Lightning has a giant battery pack hanging way down low to the ground, you should be careful not to brag too much. Like I said before, all it would take was some software to get the Cybertruck leagues ahead of the Lightning. And I think we might be there:

Obviously, this is a Tesla-produced video; it’s an ad, so we need to take it all with a grain of salt. It’s also worth noting that even Kia managed to get a lightly-modified Sorento (hardly a true off-road vehicle) crossover up Hell’s Gate:

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But you can just look at that Cybertruck video and see how effortlessly it climbed that tricky grade versus the Sorento.

You see, the reason why Hell’s Gate is so challenging is that it’s absurdly steep, and it requires a vehicle to drive up a V-crack, then a bit farther up the right wall, then drive back down into the V-crack and ultimately to the top of the hill. This means tires are going to want to lift off the rock, and if you’ve got just a standard open differential, then a lifted tire on an axle will spin up way fast, taking away the power that the other wheel on the axle — the wheel on the rock that you need to propel the vehicle up the grade.

The obstacle is a test of a few things, really; there’s geometry, of course (you’ve got to keep the bumpers from hitting the rock); there’s torque at the wheels, of course (you need to crawl up the grade nice and slowly); and there’s articulation (i.e. can you keep the tires on the ground). If you’ve got a vehicle that doesn’t have a ton of suspension flex – like the Cybertruck and other fully independent suspension-equipped trucks – then traction control really becomes the ticket to making it up the grade (i.e. can you make sure power is sent to the wheels with grip, and in a controlled and predictable way?).

The Cybertruck Hell’s Gate ad shows a vehicle slowly ascending the grade in a reasonably controlled fashion. It’s still not perfect.

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Screen Shot 2024 03 11 At 6.25.16 Am

The truck starts ascending the grade favoring the right wall. This takes some weight off the driver’s side tire, and you can see that tire flare up (i.e. spin quickly). This isn’t what you want when you’re trying to ascend a steep grade slowly and in a controlled manner; you want the tangential velocity of your tread to roughly match that of your vehicle (which is done effectively via a traditional locked-differential system; Tesla has to try to do this using sensors — a difficult challenge). You can see the truck quickly slide over to the driver’s side of the V-crack:

Screen Shot 2024 03 11 At 6.25.44 Am

At 31 seconds into that video, you can again see the truck favor the right wall (that’s the right line, from my experience), resulting yet again in the driver’s side tire wanting to lift. As a result, the tire again spins up, and this time the truck bounces a bit up and down. This is not ideal, as this type of bouncing is the leading cause of axle shaft failure. Still, the bouncing isn’t egregious based on what I see here.

Screen Shot 2024 03 11 At 6.26.32 Am

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Then at about 38 seconds in the truck lifts that driver’s side tire way off the terrain, and while the truck seems to handle that reasonably well, it does look like the vehicle speed was a bit high here, likely due to the driver trying to make up for that lake of propulsion from the front left tire. With an ideal system — for example, a fully locked center/front/rear diff on a typical 4×4 — the driver really wouldn’t have to apply any more pedal when a tire lifts off the ground; the tires with grip will continue to move the vehicle up the grade at the same rate so long as one tire has good grip.

Screen Shot 2024 03 11 At 6.27.15 Am

Still, overall the Cybertruck seemed to handle what is, frankly, a pretty challenging grade, with relatively little drama. It’s not really a grade that you can ascend without drama unless you’ve got a decent traction control system, so whatever issues Tesla was having before in that California off-road park, it seems the company’s engineering team has solved some of them.

I myself cannot wait to put the truck to the test off-road; I just need to find someone who’s got a truck to lend me…

 

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Space
Space
7 months ago

Is it true they are closing down trails in/near Moab this year?

SCOTT GREEN
SCOTT GREEN
7 months ago
Reply to  Space

Yes, because of irresponsible behavior and environmental damage. However, it’s only a small percentage of the entire trail system…like 10% or something.

Space
Space
7 months ago
Reply to  SCOTT GREEN

10% isn’t too bad. Hopefully after they clean up any damage they can reopen the trails.

Goblin
Goblin
7 months ago

Somehow, that brain of mine first read “…Kia managed to get a lightly-modified Sorento (hardly a...” as “…Kia managed to get a highly-modified Sorento…”, and I went into full battle-whine mode.

Re-read. Always re-raed. Alsway de-read !!!

Last edited 7 months ago by Goblin
I drive a boring SUV
I drive a boring SUV
7 months ago

I have zero knowledge of the way traction control works in electric vehicles, but wouldn’t it just take a few lines of code to have an “all diffs locked” mode in an EV with four motors? Just get them to spin all at the same rate, all the time this mode is engaged – more throttle, faster forward motion.

Alpine 911
Alpine 911
7 months ago

This. Waiting for someone to enlighten us

Ben
Ben
7 months ago

I asked this on a previous article about the Cybertruck and it was pointed out that you can’t just set the electric motor to run at a given speed, you only control how much power is being sent to each motor. You basically need an electronic diff like most AWD vehicles these days where you read the wheel speed and adjust power delivery on the fly. That obviously can be done, but it’s still not as good as a fully locked diff.

Rod Millington
Rod Millington
7 months ago
Reply to  Ben

Sure you can, you just need a motor with a built in encoder that is counting revolutions. Servo motors like these are used all around the place for automation as they allow you to move things precisely without relying on timers, position switches or caring about what you’re moving around.

Ben
Ben
7 months ago
Reply to  Rod Millington

That’s only true if they were using servo motors, which to my knowledge they are not. Maybe someone building a dedicated off road EV will some day though.

Rod Millington
Rod Millington
7 months ago
Reply to  Ben

You can still have a rotary encoder on any motor type.

Professor Chorls
Professor Chorls
7 months ago

Okay I feel like I need to clear up a whole bunch of conflicting info about EV traction systems here.

  • All modern EV traction motors have position encoders because that is how the inverter knows which windings to energize at what time to keep them turning.
  • “Servo motors” are not a specific kind of motor, but just describe a motor used in (usually) a closed-loop controlled system that manipulates some desired value like a position (robot arm, machine tool) a speed (the dremel on the robot arm, a screw speed on a molding machine), etc. in an industrial process.
  • Therefore, a traction motor can certainly act as a servo if you tell the inverter to do it; whether or not your throttle pedal is a command to obey in the industrial usage sense of the word is up for neckbeard scratching. I don’t think it’s the same. I believe that an electronic throttle body IS a servo motor, though!
  • A purely “electronic lock” system between two drive wheels that relies solely on the motors acting in closed-loop speed mode can work, as long as the torque demand doesn’t exceed ONE motor’s capability.
  • As soon as it does, the motors can no longer stay synchronized together and the illusion is lost
  • I dunno if Cybertruck has mechanical lock between the two wheels on an axle or not, but if there is a clutch between them that can drop in and lock, then you have the torque capability of BOTH motors working together on one axle.

yfn electrigg vehicule nerd

Professor Chorls
Professor Chorls
7 months ago

So for instance let’s say the Cybertruck is all “electronic lock” only, no clutches between the two sides. You hit the touchscreen slider gesture facial recognition dongle that says “lock (idk how teslas work). All 4 wheels are sent the same velocity command and they do their darndest to keep up.

You climb the hill and hit a rock that is pretty big. The torque demand on that wheel momentarily rises above what the motor can put out as it’s being forced into the rock. The inverter cannot supply any more current to make torque, so that wheel experiences a steep drop in velocity as a result.

I expect this will feel somewhat like if a manual locking hub isn’t quite tight and that half-shaft “slips” a bit.

Sam Hoffman
Sam Hoffman
7 months ago

I would think because the cyber truck uses induction motors for the rear axle they would require motor slip to produce torque, and if wheel torque varies quickly then you would have lots of slip due to the wind up that a 4 wheel locked vehicle would not.

The Rivian on the other hand has 4 wheel synchronous motors which should be able to output a specified speed independent of the wheel torque as long it remains below the maximum. But from videos it looks like it still doesn’t function as a locked vehicle because the tires will spin when they lose traction.

It also could be that at such slow speeds there aren’t enough steps (motor poles) in the motors to have smooth application of torque. More steps (poles) in the motors would hurt top speed. Really they might just need a low range, which would be impractical on a vehicle with 3-4 independent motors.

Crank Shaft
Crank Shaft
7 months ago

This is a Tesla produced video, so for all we know that thing only had enough batteries installed to make it to the top. They could have stripped literally a ton or more out of the test vehicle. I truly don’t trust anything from any company led by King Baby Musk.

Let’s see this reproduced with a production truck and a passenger in it. Then I might believe it’s true.

Church
Church
7 months ago
Reply to  Crank Shaft

I get it. But Hell’s Gate isn’t actually hard, so if a barely modified Sorento can do it, a production stupidtruck should do this without much issue. It looks scary, but it’s not that technically challenging or impressive to me. If anything, I’m wowed by the complete lack of wheel travel. I feel like most trucks (excepting the Maverick, Ridgeline, etc.) have more wheel travel and could do this even easier.

Cool Dave
Cool Dave
7 months ago

I finally saw two of these on a transport truck the other day!

Yeah.. they absolutely look as stupid in person as they do in pictures.

Shooting Brake
Shooting Brake
7 months ago

Wow! These AI vids are getting really good! 😉

SAABstory
SAABstory
7 months ago

I don’t care if it can crawl up the side of the Empire State Building, it’s ugly as hell.

DaChicken
DaChicken
7 months ago

Sounds like Tesla is embracing the MVP (minimum viable product) common in software – just get a working thing out there and add features (or tuning) later. Definitely a different approach than normal with “physical things” like cars. Just have to hope the features and fixes people want make it off the backlog and into prod.

Crimedog
Crimedog
7 months ago
Reply to  DaChicken

I, too, work in Agilefall. Nice to meet a fellow practitioner!

MrMcGeeIn3D
MrMcGeeIn3D
7 months ago
Reply to  DaChicken

I hate this trend so much. As a gamer, car enthusiast, and IT professional, I have to experience it on all fronts. OTA updates and day 1 patches just enable companies to put out unfinished products, letting the consumer/end user find and report the bugs instead of doing proper testing and bug fixing.

Shooting Brake
Shooting Brake
7 months ago

Wonders if a Chevy Citation could climb Hell’s Gate……..hmmmmmm (◔ૂ◔)

Prizm GSi
Prizm GSi
7 months ago

“Looks” like that Utah “art installation” from a few years back fallen over.

Duane Cannon
Duane Cannon
7 months ago

Picture caption is wrong. “Looks dialed in” That look will never be dialed in.

Andreas8088
Andreas8088
7 months ago
Reply to  Duane Cannon

It was certainly phoned in….

Engine Adventures
Engine Adventures
7 months ago

I saw the video and thought maybe an electric vehicle has finally been dialed in. I was unimpressed with other EVs off-road capabilities, including the Rivian and Hummer.

Santiago Iglesias
Santiago Iglesias
7 months ago

Yeah but normally this happens before SOP…

Turbotictac
Turbotictac
7 months ago

They are going for the video game dev method of “we can patch it out later”

Andreas8088
Andreas8088
7 months ago

Yeah, but can it do hell’s gate faster than Rory driving trailmater in reverse?

Col Lingus
Col Lingus
7 months ago

Won’t be impressed by this until I see it go up dragging the Turdmeister up by his ankles. And that still probably won’t seal the deal.
Glad that some folks here like their Teslas.
But I would rather trust the Wizard of Oz to tell the truth than Cyber Boy. YMMV.
Truck goes up hill? BFD….

Nic Periton
Nic Periton
7 months ago

I was driving a new Range Rover this weekend. It does stuff. So much stuff.

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
7 months ago

I suspect the Venn diagram overlap of the number of people who can afford.a Cybertruck and the number who actually want one will remain a tiny segment. Throw in a third circle for people who will off-road a Cybertruck and that overlap segment will shrink to total insignificance.

VanGuy
VanGuy
7 months ago
Reply to  Canopysaurus

This is completely pedantic but I just learned this recently: It’s only a Venn diagram if there’s overlap in all categories shown; otherwise it’s a Euler diagram (all Venn diagrams are also Euler diagrams, but not all Euler diagrams are Venn diagrams).

I do agree with your sentiment though!

Drew
Drew
7 months ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Pretty sure this would still be a Venn diagram–there should (in theory, at least), be overlap in all of these categories. There’s gotta be someone who can afford a Cybertruck, wants one, and will offroad it.

VanGuy
VanGuy
7 months ago
Reply to  Drew

Aw, damn. You’re right. A tiny overlap is still overlap.

Drew
Drew
7 months ago
Reply to  VanGuy

It’s still a nice thing to remember. You often hear things like “the Venn diagram of people who [blank] and people who are [blank] is two circles with no overlap.” Euler diagrams deserve some credit, especially since the Euler circle completely contains the Venn circle on the Euler diagram of Euler/Venn diagrams.

VanGuy
VanGuy
7 months ago
Reply to  Drew

Respectfully, please go to hell.

Drew
Drew
7 months ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Why? I’m being supportive of your pedantry!

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
7 months ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Consider me enlightened.

sentinelTk
sentinelTk
7 months ago
Reply to  VanGuy

Pedantry for the win.

Vetatur Fumare
Vetatur Fumare
7 months ago
Reply to  VanGuy

I am not sure I understand; please provide some sort of illustrative diagram.

VanGuy
VanGuy
7 months ago
Reply to  Vetatur Fumare

https://mdmhirogoto.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/chapter-5-2.png
In case that link doesn’t work, short summary:

if you have circles with no overlap existing as part of the same diagram, it’s not a Venn diagram. Venn diagrams must have overlap.

Vetatur Fumare
Vetatur Fumare
7 months ago
Reply to  VanGuy

No, no, I wanted a diagram of the types of diagrams – I guess it would be a Euler, with the big circle being Eulers and the little circle inside being Venns.

Bosco
Bosco
7 months ago
Reply to  Vetatur Fumare

Please also include and indicate in Venn form any circles that are non-Euler.

Ricardo Mercio
Ricardo Mercio
7 months ago
Reply to  VanGuy

For a moment there I read your name as VennGuy.

Ricardo Mercio
Ricardo Mercio
7 months ago
Reply to  Canopysaurus

I bet that the segment of people that will never off-road it will still find the fact it *can* off-road very important to their purchase. Consumers love knowing that their stuff is super capable, even if they never use it. Think about all the sports car buyers who just want to cruise up and down Santa Monica, but still buy the fastest thing available despite being less comfortable, less attractive and less practical.

Space
Space
7 months ago
Reply to  Ricardo Mercio

As an autopian I enjoy using vehicles that “can’t” or at least shouldn’t. Move 1000 miles in a compact sedan? Off road in a Buick. Drive my slow car fast (where safe). It strikes me as fun and as a bonus I learned how to fix radiators, thermostats, half shafts, brakes, rotors and door handles!

I didn’t enjoy moving in a sedan but when you are poor you got no choice.

Ricardo Mercio
Ricardo Mercio
7 months ago
Reply to  Space

I fully agree, shoving everything I owned in a 20-year-old A4 was a point of pride for me, and I just “downgraded” to half the power from my last car because it wasn’t exciting below 100mph. 200 feels like kind of the sweet spot for me, I’d buy a BRZ if the insurance premiums weren’t so insanely high on those. I like pushing a vehicle’s limits, not just knowing they’re higher than I’ll ever reach. A fast car only lets you stretch how brave (ahem, stupid) you are, a slow car actually lets you exercise skill.

Same with off-roading, what’s the point of buying a vehicle so capable that you have to drive 10+ hours to the nearest challenging trail? It’s such a waste to visit the “outdoors” inside an air-conditioned, noise-insulated, hyper-capable apartment on wheels. The best times I’ve ever had off-road were in a one-seater buggy with no windshield, no diff, a CVT and 14bhp.

Boyd Sloane
Boyd Sloane
7 months ago

You’ve got some nerve writing anything almost vaguely positive about the Cybertruck, DT.

Haaahrumph! Haaahrumph!

V10omous
V10omous
7 months ago

so whatever issues Tesla was having before in that California off-road park, it seems the company’s engineering team has solved some of them.

Call me old fashioned, but when I was in product development, the intention was to engineer for well-foreseen issues like taking a truck off-road *before* the on-sale date, not just release betas on the public.

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
7 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

For better or worse, Tesla is sticking to their philosophy of acting like a tech company.
I think that pretty much all companies/products used to be released as you describe. Today there is just too much emphasis on being first rather than being best.

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
7 months ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

First is more important because you can always lie about being the best, at least for awhile, and especially if you own a massive social media platform, too.

V10omous
V10omous
7 months ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

I think you’re right, but what’s funny about this was 1) the CT was already super late, so who cares if they took another month to get the calibration dialed in better, and 2) the Lightning was already on the market, so they were never going to be first anyways.

In any case, it doesn’t matter, no one who wants one of these is going to be bothered in the least by any of this.

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
7 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

It’s an odd characteristic of the world we live in. Nearly 100% of these will be purchased for daily driver trips for groceries and commutes to work with a few percentage points of contractors (maybe) if they want some extra visual attention for their electric business.
But there will be plenty of YouTube channel reviews that will highlight deficiencies in areas that won’t matter to anyone considering one of these things.

And yet the press from a bad YT video in performance or utility will still have a negative impact on the perception by the mall crawling crowds. Why are we considered the most intelligent inhabitants on Earth again?

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
7 months ago
Reply to  Ottomottopean

Because we control the media.

Drew
Drew
7 months ago
Reply to  Canopysaurus

Dammit, I’m going to rely entirely on non-human media from now on. I hear whales have a pretty good pod cast.

My 0.02 Cents
My 0.02 Cents
7 months ago
Reply to  Drew

Never fear because A.I. is here!!!.

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
7 months ago
Reply to  Drew

Very good!

Drew
Drew
7 months ago
Reply to  Drew

I might also catch the trout live stream. Spiders have a pretty good web presence, too.

Ricardo Mercio
Ricardo Mercio
7 months ago
Reply to  Drew

I hear birds posted pretty reliable tweets before it was renamed.

Ben
Ben
7 months ago
Reply to  Drew

COTD, and I don’t usually say that about puns, but this is just a perfect response. 😀

Angry Bob
Angry Bob
7 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

GM and Chrysler push products out the door with design flaws and then never fixes them.

Ottomottopean
Ottomottopean
7 months ago
Reply to  Angry Bob

It’s a good point. As long as continuous improvement is the goal we should applaud this more. There’s a few too many instances of updates to remove features because they decided they should charge monthly instead of a single payment at purchase for me to like it but the potential is there for a better ownership experience.

VanGuy
VanGuy
7 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

I mean, I get your point, but if it was fully competent on the road or on basic dirt roads even before these updates (assuming they’re 100% software updates only), I’d say that’s the important piece. Anyone who’s doing terrain like this on the regular is probably looking for things with better geometry, anyway…right?

The ability to remotely update significant aspects/functionality of vehicles truly is a sea change. Yeah, better if it was good by default, but…it doesn’t look like the lack was a safety issue first, for example.

sentinelTk
sentinelTk
7 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

Except when you are Tesla and just view customers and public roads as a paid-for beta….

Vetatur Fumare
Vetatur Fumare
7 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

As long as Tesla buyers don’t care, they will keep doing this.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
7 months ago

This will come in very handy for owners on their way to the mall.

Elons Backdoor Musk
Elons Backdoor Musk
7 months ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

*on their way to film their next YouTube/Tiktok/Instagram video

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
7 months ago

And Home Depot for that one box of screws.

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
7 months ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

That whole truck is a box of screws.

Hiram McDaniel
Hiram McDaniel
7 months ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

I LITERALLY went to Home Depot yesterday for one box of nails (not screws). Buy I did so in a Jaguar XJR. Left the truck at home.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
7 months ago
Reply to  Hiram McDaniel

I did so in a Jaguar XJR. Left the truck at home.

That’s better?

Hiram McDaniel
Hiram McDaniel
7 months ago
Reply to  Cheap Bastard

Not better from a gas usage standpoint. But better from a which would I rather drive? Definately. LOL

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
7 months ago
Reply to  Hiram McDaniel

Only in America…

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