Is everyone here old enough to remember the iPod Nano? Or maybe the Tata Nano? There was a period in time when the big impetus in technology was just to make things small. In some ways, that’s back with a trio of Japanese automakers that are attempting to push new, smaller engines as the future of greening their respective lineups.
Toyota got it right when it indexed heavily in hybrids, at least for this period of history, and it looks like Subaru and Mazda are going to follow a similar playbook (both companies are partially owned by Toyota).
Stellantis, in spite of all its bickering with Italy’s government, will build hybrid versions of its Fiat 500 and Jeep Compass in the country, as there’s been a global slowdown in EV sales.
With EV sales slowing down, and with Fisker possibly going kaput, it looks like contract manufacturer Magna Steyr thinks it can make some money creating localized versions of Chinese cars, which… maybe! And, finally, Tesla continues to show it doesn’t care as much about making cars anymore.
Japanese Automakers Show Off Smaller Motors
Lemme just start with the press release:
Subaru Corporation (Subaru), Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota), and Mazda Motor Corporation (Mazda) have each committed to developing new engines tailored to electrification and the pursuit of carbon neutrality. With these engines, each of the three companies will aim to optimize integration with motors, batteries, and other electric drive units. While transforming vehicle packaging with more compact engines, these efforts will also decarbonize ICEs by making them compatible with various carbon-neutral (CN) fuels.
Ignoring the bit about biofuels, this is all out of the Toyota’s “multi-pathway” approach to de-carbonization, which is a realization that not everyone is going to be able to jump for EVs immediately. I’ve been calling 2024 the “Year of the Hybrid” but, given the timeline for these motors to go in cars for many years to come, perhaps it was better stated as the Decade of the Hybrid.
In pursuing decarbonization, all three companies have focused on carbon as the enemy and sought to expand options by acting with passion and purpose. This mindset has driven efforts to ensure a future for the supply chains and jobs that underpin engines. Under the extreme conditions of racing, the companies have worked to broaden powertrain and fuel options by competing with vehicles running on liquid hydrogen and CN fuels.
This process has clarified the role that future engines will play in achieving carbon neutrality. With the next generation of engines, the three companies will seek to not only improve standalone engine performance but also optimize their integration with electric drive units, harnessing the advantages of each.
After years of companies basically pretending like engines didn’t exist and showing off as many EVs as possible, the existence of a “next generation” family of engines is interesting.
So what are these motors? One is a 1.5-liter, three-cylinder that’s meant to replace the current M15 engine of families and weighs about 10% less. The new 2.0-liter inline-four will replace Toyota’s current 2.4-liter and 2.5-liter engines used in larger vehicles.
The trick with both of these engines is that they’re designed specifically to package with electric motors and hybrid drive units from the factory. That’s the whole point. Additionally, they’re meant to have a lower profile so they fit better underhood, for improved packaging and aerodynamics. And, finally, yada yada e-fuels.
The first vehicle shown that has this system is the Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid prototype, though it does make me wonder if the same setup is going into the 2026 Subaru Forester Hybrid we’re hoping to see soon.
Stellantis Will Reportedly Build Hybrids In Italy
The ongoing Stellantis family bickering with Italy has resulted in a moment of detente, as the automaker has agreed to build both a hybrid version of the Electric Fiat 500e and a hybrid version of the Jeep Compass.
Fiat owner Stellantis said on Monday it would build a hybrid version of its 500e small electric car at its Mirafiori plant in Turin, Italy, amid a slowdown in electric car sales.
The announcement came after Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares met in Turin with union representatives who had long been asking the company to boost production at Fiat’s historic home with a new high-volume, cheaper model.
The turning of an electric car back into a hybrid, as is planned with the Fiat 500, is a weird move and goes to show that all automakers are sort of reconsidering their platforms.
Magna-Steyr Might Make Chinese Cars In Europe
Europe, like the United States, is worried about an influx of Chinese-built electric cars that would destroy their economies. The difference between the United States and Europe, however, is that Chinese cars are already there.
Rather than get into another fight over tariffs, BYD is already planning to build a plant in Hungary. But what if building a whole plant is a big leap? Why not do what a lot of European automakers already do and have Austria’s Magna Steyr build the car for you?
According to Automotive News Europe, that’s already a conversation:
“Over the past 12 months, we have seen very strong activity from all of the Chinese OEMs who are contacting us and who want and need to localize,” Magna Steyr President Roland Prettner said during a media event at its plant, where models such as the Mercedes-Benz G-Class are made. “We are in discussions right now.”
As well as “looking at what role we can play” the subsidiary of Magna International can “help them to have a manufacturing site here in Europe,” Prettner said.
“Chinese OEMs are testing with different distributors about what they think the volume of their vehicles in Europe could be. Of course, there is always the discussion about how we can produce these vehicles here in Graz,” he said.
This makes a lot of sense. Maybe a Chinese automaker should just buy the remaining husk of Fisker and keep making Oceans out of Graz, but with better software.
Tesla Walks Back Future Manufacturing Plans
While Tesla may have popularized gigacasting and structural battery packs, it turns out that Tesla isn’t so interested in that anymore. This seems to be a common theme these days and there’s an Automotive News piece that sums up a lot of what’s been going on lately.
Most importantly, this piece points out that everyone else is going to start duplicating (and maybe even expanding) what Tesla created in the last decade:
Tesla’s rivals, including Toyota and Volvo, are already developing their own gigacasting abilities for future products. And the adoption of structural battery packs and parts consolidation is widespread among EV makers trying to match or beat Tesla’s production costs. The idea of a new assembly process that could profitably make a $25,000 EV also grabbed their attention, Fiorani said.
“The unboxing process kind of lit a fire under the industry,” Fiorani said. “The idea that there could be a different way to build these vehicles, especially if they don’t entail an internal combustion engine, got the industry excited.”
Tesla did an impressive amount of engineering in the teens, but I’m not sure there’s a moat around much of that tech anymore, especially with many of those execs leaving the company.
What I’m Listening To This Morning
I’m a big Andrew Bird fan and it’s nice to see the violinist/singer/guitarist/whistler going back to his jazz roots with something that feels pleasingly classic.
The Big Question
Where would you put these tiny motors? [Ed Note: I’d use them as range extenders. -DT]
Can we just like send at least one tailor to Japan?
We do have Chinese cars over here. Buick Envision and some Volvos.
AM General also does contract car manufacturing, though maybe not at the scale Magna does. For example, AM General made the Mercedes R-Class that was exported to China.
Called it. I CBA to find the comment because it was at least a year or two ago, but on an article where some manufacturer was announcing their “final” generation of ICEs I predicted that they’d have to backpedal on that, and here we are. I doubt we’ll see too many new standalone ICEs, but we’ve got at least a generation or two of hybrid/range extender engines before we call the coroner.
In a world where TMC can warranty 100HP/500cc cylinder a 2.0 doesn’t have to be “tiny”. Even without forced induction the Prius Prime is at 220HP. An Impreza with no lag 220 HP, cylinders that gravity drain oil and still fits under a low hood? Make it a hatch (and get wheel bearings from the Toyota parts bin) and I’m in.
So they’ve all worked to develop the original Honda Insight engine from 1999, great job everyone, pats on the back all around. /sarcasm.
But really that’s good, they should go all Frank’s Redhot and put that in everything, Trucks, compact cars, whatever.
While I appreciate the unexpected photograph of the Stellantis family patriarchs, I do miss the tradition of having another photo to go along with the mention of Carlos Tavares.
thank you!!! He’ll be back.
With a hybrid-only engine, you can lose the accessory drive, tune the intake/exhaust for a ludicrously lumpy torque curve and let the motor/transmission/DBW fill the gaps.
Sometimes I think about the idea of a hybrid setup with a motorcycle-style sequential transmission, that uses the electric motor to rev-match for clutchless shifting.
Also: I had no idea that Andrew Bird singing “Caravan” would be in the cards for this morning!
“Sometimes I think about the idea of a hybrid setup with a motorcycle-style sequential transmission, that uses the electric motor to rev-match for clutchless shifting.”
Well, check the Renault’s “E-Tech” full hybrid system !
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/renault/clio/108910/new-renault-clio-e-tech-hybrid-2020-review
Oh COOL, that’s exactly what I had in mind! I just love it when I think up something weird and then find out someone else had the same thought, but went and did it.
Subaru, Toyota and Mazda are doing what Honda did with the Honda Insight Gen 1, just available with other type of fuels… and better batteries. Like someone said in the question of automotive icks, when automakers are more reactive than proactive providing solutions to a problem, in this case, offering back small engines with electrification should be something that should be available 20 years ago and continued today.
The only thing that could make replacing battery packs somehow even more expensive is to make them structural. Great engineering idea. Absolutely terrible product release idea
When phone went to non-swappable batteries, it pretty much forced users to upgrade when their phones stop keeping a charge. It’s a little greedy, but kinda works for phones since tech updates with needs, networks, etc. Cars are a lot more waste, so manufacturers/engineers need to drop the concept of a disposable car yesterday.
As if companies care. It’s a story as old as time. Churn, baby, churn. You shouldn’t be surprised. lol.
That’s life 🙂
This describes a lot of Tesla’s design innovations. I think their cars are going to prove to be service and repair nightmares as they age.
Small motors make perfect sense there. I’d love to see a 80-100 hp motor for the base range extender, and then 30-40 kWH battery with just electric drive.
Would you need even that much? IIRC even cars 30 years ago only needed 25 HP or so to maintain freeway speeds. If so a hyper efficient 40-50 HP ICE and a good sized battery should be fine.
I’d generally agree with you, but the 50ish hp motor from the i3 occasionally had issues keeping up at speed. Now that might be more of a rating issue than anything else.
I think that was a matter of letting the battery drain too much so the REX had to propel the car at high speed AND recharge the battery AND run the A/C etc. I think a bigger battery would help fix that.
Alternatively the REX could use DOD. That way its a hyper efficient 1,2 or 3 cylinder as needed.
I’m 100% on board using the smallest motor that lets a car travel indefinitely at ~85mph. Whatever that is idc.
I dunno if “small” motor is necessarily the most fuel efficient motor though. As was pointed out to me by Toecutter a Corvette with a 5.7L pushrod V8 is capable of 40 mpg highway with the right tune. That’s also a relatively compact and light engine.
Thermodynamically slower is better so a big engine tuned for max efficiency at idle might be more efficient than a tiny engine screaming along at a gazillion RPM for the same power output. Plus a V8 will be smoother and have more flexibility for DOD.
Lol, smallest as least motive force required (lowest power), and you can design to whatever other criteria balance needed. Certainly efficiency matters.more than displacement to me here.
I want to put that 1.5 in my kei truck!
So Fiat can call the 500 hybrid “Torino”? And if they brought back the 500L, it would be the “Gran(d) Torino”?
Eastwood grimacing
Aka Eastwood
The Fiat TwinAir seems like the perfect range extender for a Fiat 500e Hybrid setup.
It’s a shame that the revenge of the range extended BEV has taken so long, hopefully it’ll be here sooner than we think.
If they brought any TwinAir product over here, I’d buy 5. That motor just sounds so cool!
Nice of DT to throw out a little stinger at the end…after he bought a fancy-dancy new Gold car. Legit Gold. 😉
Matt, as far as hybrids go, I’m not sure what else you want. You might be the biggest hybrid advocate in auto journalism, but the companies are succumbing to it. So, it’s here. You should be happy 🙂
As far as Tesla goes, everyone should be happy. There is a VERY vocal minority on here that like to just say stuff like “man child” or even the laughable “Nazi”, but for all the pleading and griping, the industry wouldn’t be anywhere near as advanced as it now without them.
It’s, ok. For all we know, Mary Barra kicks kittens.
I am curious how you know that people who dislike Elon Musk are a vocal minority?
Also, most (certainly not all) of the criticism I have seen of him on this site acknowledges and appreciates what Tesla has done for the electric car, but don’t like that fact that Musk seems to enjoy promoting Nazis.
Did you proofread what you wrote?
Uh, not initially, but apologies if there’s something in there bothering you. Kind of a long sentence but I’m not exactly gunning for a Pulitzer.
Anyway, I am still curious how you know that people who dislike Elon Musk are a vocal minority. 🙂
Well, not to get into a thing. But, yeah.
The “anti-elon” people are no better (or worse) than the majority of the world that doesn’t give two shits. It’s laughable to spend emotional energy on it.
I guess I’m guilty of it right now, but it’s all so stupid.
Imagine going to Port Elizabeth, SA and asking a random person on the street what their feelings are about Musk or anything involving Kilowatt Hours. Do the same in San Paulo. Do the same in Antwerp. What you will find is that no one cares.
If you wanna make that your mission, have at it. It’s a waste of time and only makes you look petty and jealous. Shit, you might as well watch “The View” 24/7 if that fits your fancy. Life is precious, don’t waste it on strangers.
(as I hit enter. I get that part. lol)
> Imagine going to Port Elizabeth, SA and asking a random person on the street what their feelings are about Musk or anything involving Kilowatt Hours. Do the same in San Paulo. Do the same in Antwerp. What you will find is that no one cares.
Absence of opinion from a given set of passersby should not be taken to imply the lack of impact, positive or negative, a person or organization has on the world. For one, the inverse doesn’t hold up: if they did have opinions, your argument is already primed to dismiss those opinions as “petty and jealous.” For two, I am certain beyond doubt that there were plenty of European citizens that didn’t give a shit about Hitler and Nazism, or maybe were not even aware of him, until the eve of invasion.
You also assert morality, but only on your conditions: the industry is better (i.e., more good) because of Musk and Tesla. At the same time, to attempt to hold Musk accountable for his reckless, dangerous, and erratic behavior is “anti-elon” and no better or worse than the people that do or don’t have opinions. So, the automotive industry can be better because of Musk, but it’s a “waste of time” and “laughable to spend emotional energy” to bring up how the world is a worse place because of him.
You push morality and validity into a hole when they would shine light on what’s wrong, and go right into shaming those that would do so, discrediting their efforts because you don’t think strangers in other places would care.
Firstly, you just offered proof of my point.
Secondarily, I built a school in SA. So there is that part.
It’s laudable, yet laughable, that you would equate anything remotely close to Hilter’s “whole shebang” to anything that is actually advancing humanity. I get what you want the world to be, however, that ain’t ever happening. That is crazy talk.
Just because you have some feelings about a stranger on a hyper-specific website doesn’t make you right.
At the end of the day, we are REALLY talking about exploring space, accessing the internet fairly for the whole world to give everyone a chance, and at least attempting to make the globe cleaner than it would be otherwise. Ya know, trying to be kind.
If that is bad, well…fuck me right in the bum.
We’re way off tiny engines here, but just so you and any poor bastard watching this spat play out are very clear on this point:
I picked the comparison to Hitler and Nazism for a reason, and it is not because his actions and the actions of the Nazi party were or might be interpreted as advancing the state of humanity.
No need to defend yourself.
You do you.
When you call a group a “vocal minority” you are suggesting that there is a majority that holds the opposite opinion. Your comment purports that there is a majority (in the entire world, apparently) that is apathetic to the issue.
Also, regarding your point below that Elon Musk is “trying to be kind” in his endeavors. I mean … that’s a very generous assumption that I have no interest arguing with. However, even assuming it’s true, it doesn’t negate the criticisms of his other actions (e.g., promoting Nazis on his social media site). You can do good things AND be worthy of criticism for doing bad things.
Umm…no one really cares outside of this sub-set. That’s the truth.
Yes, that is what I am “suggesting”.
The notion that you subconsciously won’t even type “Twitter” (as maybe some sort of moral indignity) in your response, unfortunately for you, shows your bias and denunciates your whole theorem.
You are a part of a whole whopping thousands that are stomping their feet about something. Cool.
I agree that the Elon haters are both vocal and likely few in absolute numbers. I think their reasons for disliking him are valid, but I question the value of expending so much energy on it. If the situation changes and Elon is in a position to actually put some of his radical views into action, then I would reevaluate my position. Based on his recent behavior (firing the entire Supercharger team, among other things), I think he might be his own worst enemy and will flame out like all people like him eventually do.
OK hear me out, in theory, Mazda could adapt the 1.5 triple to the rumored hybrid Miata NE. If they take a similar approach to the ND2, wherein they take the standard bland 2-liter i4, and add some revs and character, but with hilarious 3-cylinder noises, a crazy redline, and a small but torquey electric motor for balanced power delivery, they could have a spicy, actually joyful, and relatively light hybrid “NE” miata that could actually be a worthwhile successor to the ND.
Manual Hybrids have proven to be doable with the 1st-gen Insight and CRZ, and Mazda is as committed to the manual RWD light roadster as anyone, and honestly I think this could be a perfect way to keep the Miata in production with the way the international emissions regulations are going.
Considering how bad the CRZ MPG was with a manual I sincerely doubt Mazda could better it with a RWD setup, and unlike other automakers where they sell so many vehicles that a couple MPG improvement is worth it to them such a slight MPG improvement likely wouldn’t help Mazda any.
I think they’d be better off going with a range extended BEV. Maybe work with Subaru to make a flat 2 that they can use with a very thin battery pack.
I don’t think it would make a big difference in mileage either, but from what I understand about the laws, which granted change often, is that Hybrids have some baked in advantages over ICE only for compliance, and a smaller engine with Hybrid assistance would likely bring emissions down with similar MPG. Either way, this is the best case scenario I could come up with for the spirit and experience of the Miata, rather than looking at MPG/CO2 and similar.
A BEV with a range extender in a Miata would be a complete deal breaker for me, and would probably weigh far too much anyways. For something like my CX-30 however, a little rotary range extender BEV would be extremely compelling and interesting.
I don’t think comparing the CRZ to anything modern is smart.
What was the last hybrid sold in the US with a manual transmission?
I’d like to see the 500 hybrid come here, it has a lot more sales potential than the EV, to the extent that anything with a Fiat badge has sales potential, anyway.
But, not for me, too few doors and too inexpensive to use as a work vehicle, and I have no interest in buying a brand new vehicle as a second car, hell, I would prefer to to buy new as a primary car, I’m just required to
Made me actually look up the numbers.
Fiat supposedly only sold < 1000 annual vehicles in the US since 2022.
They left Canada in 2022, after selling 645/year or fewer from 2018 onwards.
Even in the EU… They sold a million vehicles in 2017, but 223K in 2022.
That’s one thing if you’re selling full size luxury cars, another thing entirely if you’re primarily selling less expensive compact cars. Dead man walking?
Fiat is actually Stellantis’ largest selling brand globally, but that’s on the strength of Latin America (specifically Brazil and Argentina), they’ve been declining in Europe for sometime, largely for the same reason any Stellantis brand is struggling – lack of new product and a habit of discontinuing old product without anything ready to replace it
And also the fact their vehicles are utter shite.
If the damn 500e didn’t have those stupid electric door handles I would have bought 3 of them.
I agree with David, though I also think they should be designing engines specifically as range extenders. Something designed to be incredibly efficient while running as a generator only, rather than something designed to drop in and provide motive power to a hybrid powertrain. Maybe I’m wrong and these will be incredibly well-suited to that task, though.
Isn’t that how Mazda has been teasing the return of the rotary? I’d love to see that.
I was super excited for the MX30 with the range-extending rotary…and they seem to have decided we don’t need/want it.
Tiny trucks and roadsters with manual transmissions. So, something that will never sell, I guess.
The article mentions a 1.5L 3cyl and a 2.0L inline 4, but the photo shows a Subaru boxer engine. Is that the 3cyl? I can see 2 coilpacks on the left side but not the other and a 3cyl boxer sounds, unbalanced.
I’m still waiting to hear about these supposed tiny engines. 1.5 and 2.0 are small but pretty normal sizes these days.
Maybe we can have the tiny engines like in nitromethane powered 1/10th scale R/C cars. Those were typically around 2.4cc (1-cyl), revved to 40,000+ rpm, and put out 1.5-1.7HP.
I like it! With those kind of weight savings, 1.5hp should be plenty when paired with an electric motor from a Tamiya Grasshopper.
To be fair, it’d also sound like a Grasshopper. On cocaine.
I ran 1/10th nitromethane 20+ years ago when I think they only revved into the 30Krpm range or so. They weren’t exactly quiet.
Charge me faster, tiny engine
Extend my range out on the highway.
Too many things to know still about those tiny engines. I mean, the Geo Metro I had was only a 1.0, but it didn’t produce enough power for anything other than a golf cart. If these can produce 150 – 250 hp, they could be a viable replacement for just about any passenger car, especially when combined with a hybrid system that would give it a bit of torque from stop. If they can’t produce reasonable power, then they should just be used as range extenders for EVs.
I owned a Fiesta with the 1.0 Ecoboost making about 120 hp.
With a 5 speed, it was plenty adequate for moving a small car like that but I would not want to see an engine that small moving a larger car unless the electric assist is significant.
BMW juiced up the i8 I3 quite a bit … but it’s hard to get the torque curve right for a heavier car. Maybe that’s what they can do with the electric?
This is my biggest concern with overboosted engines. I’ve had two hot hatches with turbo 2 liter 4s in a row and they’re more than adequate for that role. I also think some of the fear over turbos in general is a little overblown in this day and age. The technology is well sorted at this point.
…but when I see things like the base engine in the Grand Highlander being a 2.4 liter turbo 4 I wince a bit. I don’t like the thought of an engine that small having the additional stress of moving a 4,500+ pound vehicle around on top of the boost. But as you say, if there’s significant electric power to go with the small engine I’m a lot less concerned. The hybrid Highlanders and assorted Lexus models seem to fare just fine when it comes to long term reliability.
Turbos have been sorted out fine at this point. Sure the manufacturer can mess things up but a turbo car should not be considered as less reliable if properly engineered. It is people that modify turbo cars that give them a bad name.
Eh. A smol turbo engine will always be inferior to moar displacement, at least in terms of feel, sound, and performance.
Not in terms of emissions and gas mileage, obviously, but in terms of driving experience I’ll take a relatively pokey v6 or v8 over a beehive 4-pot turbo.
Adding in an electric motor changes things.
See I disagree. I daily a 6 cylinder honda but it doesn’t come close to the feel or sound of my old 90s turbo subaru. Something about turbos just grabs me more than the linear feel of a larger motor. I think it’s the linear nature of it that is kinda boring to me as my subaru is built in a way that I need to ring out the gears and keep it there but man it flies when it does that. I just don’t see it the same way and I believe it comes down to personal preference.
Yeah it’s totally a preference!
I had a 1.0 EB in a CMax as a rental in Germany. Fine for driving around town, downright terrifying on the Autobahn. It could get you up to speed eventually, but I quickly learned that even passing slow trucks required a great deal of momentum before pulling into the fast lane. Gutless doesn’t begin to describe it at highway speeds.
Good thing US highways aren’t Autobahns.
An Italian made hybrid from a company called Stellantis. How can we make it even less reliable? Bring Lucas electrics back from the dead?
I mean, Stellantis is moving a lot of engineering to countries that aren’t really known for engineering cars on a massive scale. I’m sure that’ll present some newfound issues.
Lord Lucas, Prince of Darkness … and the legend lives on
I don’t feel the 500e’s problem had anything to do with EV sales slowing down.
It mostly had to do with the fact that it cost $750 more than a Tesla Model 3 while at best getting 60% of the range. That’s too much to ask for a compliance vehicle, especially when for most buyers a bigger vehicle and more range is better.
Yup. It’s just too expensive, especially for the States. It might make sense in Europe where small cars are important. But here in the US, there’s basically zero reason to get it over cheaper alternatives.
But boy, that 500e looks fantastic!
Nope, EU journalists have railed against it as well.
The Honda e is in the same boat, even though the Honda e isn’t a compliance car. Everyone likes the idea of the Honda e, but it’s incredibly hard to justify. The Honda e reviews were basically, “I’m glad it exists… for other people.” The problem is, there’s not enough “other people” who are buying them.
You’re not wrong, but wasn’t the gas powered 500 significantly more expensive than like a versa or comparable compact cars? It’s always been a fashion statement and not really meant to compete on paper. Speaking for myself, I would buy a 500e over any Tesla and even with the ~150 miles it would be fine for me. If I weren’t a cheap bastard, the 500e is the most tempting EV on the market to me. Second being a first gen bolt.
It was priced comparably to the Versa back in 2019, but, then, that Nissan is one full size class larger (subcompact vs a city car), so the 500 certainly wasn’t cheaper in proportion
Ok fair. I was thinking it was priced more in line with the Mini. Yeah it’s never been a car people go for because of it’s value.
anecdotal, but resale pricing tells the tale: paid $9K out the door for an r50 with 60k miles in 2012, paid $6.8K for 500c with 35k miles in 2019. two different dealerships within a couple miles of each other. (incidental to example, but repair costs favored the 500c. no idea if that would hold up long term, as the fiat was rear-ended and totaled 18 months after purchase).
Although I agree with you, the typical buyer does buy on paper. I say this as someone who has never had a car longer than 174in/4420mm.
The 500 (2007+) has an audience. However, because it’s a BEV with limited range, like the Honda e the 500e is rather niche.
How niche? Well, Fiat’s sales targets were 200,000 units globally. They’ve only hit 8% of that target thus far, and that likely that includes the initial early surge of buyers for whom it’s actually their ideal kind of vehicle. Model sales always tail off hard after intro. So you’re looking at it maybe only selling 50-60K total units globally, and not the 200K they budgeted around.
That is the definition of a swing and a miss. Especially when the normal 500 (2007+) I think will likely end near the 3 million sold mark.
Yeah I agree the market is smaller than the car is, but I still love it and want one. I have looked at getting an orange first gen 500e many times, and those only have like 60 miles if I remember right. They’re just adorable and make me smile.
I apparently to the sales numbers wrong. Can’t edit the original post anymore. The 500e is at ~185K total units sold as of the end of 2023, and around 17K units the first four months of 2024. So at 202K units so far, honestly not bad in the scheme of things.
However, Fiat is trying to push a lot more volume than that. The hybrid they’re shooting for 125K annual sales, to push total Hybrid+BEV production to around 175K units a year. That’s… actually respectable.
I dunno how the quality of the materials on the e-version is but the plastics on the gas 500 are atrocious! As in don’t try to use the armrests or you’ll be sorry.
“Where would you put these tiny motors?”
Hear me out.
Twin engined, AWD, Bongo Friendee.
You rang?