Home » Why Chrysler Jeep Dodge Ram Customers Are Double-Screwed Right Now

Why Chrysler Jeep Dodge Ram Customers Are Double-Screwed Right Now

Double Screwed Tmd Ts2
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There are many reasons I might not envy the average Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram dealership right now. With the highest inventories and the weakest products, there isn’t a lot of room to improve. It’s even worse for the customers who “took a bath on their last vehicle” and are now entirely stuck.

The shortage-fueled sugar high that Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Ram parent company Stellantis was on during the pandemic has fully resulted in an inevitable crash landing. I often tell the story of the industry each Morning Dump from, well, the perspective of the industry. In this case, I think the customer view is a little more interesting.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

Still, I’ll let Carlos Tavares explain why he thinks sales are faltering in North America and it’s kind of amazing how wrong he is. At least, how wrong I think he is. His fellow CEOs might also disagree with him about how Europe should proceed with its decarbonization efforts.

EVs are still on the rise globally and it’s due mostly to one country.

Stellantis Customers Are Getting Hit With A Boomerang

2024 Dodge Durango Citadel

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I’m not sure that any carmaker fared better because of the pandemic than Stellantis. When it looked like the world was shutting down carmakers quickly canceled their orders for semiconductors. This was, seemingly, the wrong choice as automakers discovered there were few backups. To make matters worse, the chipmakers prioritized getting up the kind of personal electronics that were suddenly in high demand (everyone was at home) and more profitable.

This caused automakers to lose a lot of production, but not necessarily a lot of money. I cover this in great detail in my Trimflation article, and you can read that if you want a fuller picture. TL/DR: Car companies lowered incentives to zero, prioritized the building of the priciest models over lower trims, and took advantage of near-zero interest rates to sell cars at extravagant prices.

Stellantis made gigantic profits during this period as it was an automaker with a lot of old product lines, easy-to-produce products, and was investing less in electrification than some of its peers. While a vehicle like the Durango or Compass might have been old even four years ago, they were still relatively cheaper than some alternatives and, being old, gave Stellantis huge margins.

This is obviously biting the company in the bustle back now, with its dealers calling Stellantis a “disaster.” I’ve been focused on the old product and lack of competitive incentives in my critiques of Stellantis. What I missed was the obvious problem of old customers coming back to dealers in the United States and finding themselves in a tough position.

The Detroit Free Press has an enlightening interview with Scott Kunes, the COO of a Midwestern dealership group, that just closed two Stellantis stores. While he talks about all the big issues, it’s the negative equity issue that struck me as a big deal this morning:

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Kunes said the inventory situation has improved slightly, but he noted that because it hasn’t improved enough and dealers are being squeezed by high rates they have to pay for the vehicles on their lots.

And Stellantis customers who might be thinking about a new Stellantis vehicle are also facing challenges, he said, because they are in “negative equity positions that we can’t overcome on newer vehicles,” making it hard for them to stick with the automaker’s offerings knowing they “took a bath on their last vehicle.”

Imagine you paid over-sticker with only a small down payment for something like a Dodge Durango in 2021 but kept your monthly payments relatively moderate because you got an extremely low interest rate for 72 months. That Durango is now worth a lot less given that there’s all this low-priced new inventory out there that’s being heavily discounted.

Now you’ve decided that your car payment is too high and you want to lower it or, at maybe, you want to get a new car for roughly the same monthly payment. What you owe on your old car is more than the current value (you’re “upside down” or in “negative equity”) and the best interest rate you can get is suddenly much higher. You’re not going to be happy with your Dodge dealer who is telling you to get a new Durango you’ll have to raise your monthly payment significantly.

This is bad for Dodge dealers, who just lost a customer. It’s bad for Dodge customers, who can’t easily replace their cars. This isn’t entirely unique to Stellantis brands–most people who financed a large percentage of a car purchase between roughly late 2020 and early 2023 are at risk–but Stellantis dealers are sort of uniquely hosed by having sold some of the most average cars for some of the most above average prices and lack good, affordable alternatives to sell people.

It’s like a boomerang was fired off at the start of the pandemic and now it’s coming back to hit everyone involved with Stellantis.

Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares Blames Marketing, Is Probably Not Correct

Devil Lovitz Tavares
Source: SNL

Feel free to re-read the above story and tell me if you really think the problem is marketing.

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I’m going to go back to the Freep as it has a nice companion piece to the article I linked above. It’s from a conversation that Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares, pictured above talking to reporter David Shepardson, had with the media at the Paris Auto Show this week.

“In the U.S., we were stumbling on the poor Q2 2024 marketing plan that created an inventory issue with the dealers, and now we are fixing that, and we are fixing it at the right pace. As we have already reduced inventory by 52,000 vehicles over the last three months and we want to be below 330,000 vehicles in dealer inventories by Christmas,” he said, noting that the automaker is on a “good track” toward a fresh start next year.

Tavares, who noted that the company’s regions have “a lot of autonomy,” said “the marketing plan that failed in Q2 was proposed and decided by the region.”

To be fair, he said, he’d seen that it was risky and that he could have stopped it but did not.

I’m sorry. Marketing? That’s your problem? I don’t buy it. Stellantis has been slow to release its grip on incentives in order to help dealers sell cars because it wants to maintain a margin that’s essentially impossible to maintain in this market. The company is starting to turn this around, but I’m not sure there’s a marketing plan in the universe that will get people excited about a Dodge Hornet.

Someone get this guy a Crystal Pepsi.

Interestingly, Tavares did come out in favor of keeping the EU’s difficult CO2 regulations, stating:

“The other day my youngest daughter was driving her car in a forest in Portugal, and the forest caught fire, and she had to drive through the forest on fire. The door panel on the right-hand side melted,” he said, describing the need for Stellantis to be on the “right side of history” and contribute to “fixing the global warming issue.”

“So how do you feel if one of your daughters is in this position, and you say, ‘I’m going to ask to postpone the CO2 regulations?’ There is a moment where you need to face reality,” he said.

Stellantis is one of those companies that might benefit from keeping BEV requirements in place as it launches its cheap, European-built Leapmotor electric cars.

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BMW CEO: Let’s Talk About EV Requirements, Please

2025 BMW M5 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance #1/1

BMW’s Oliver Zipse was also at the Paris Motor Show and he’s arguing that the EU CO2 goals, which require electrification, are going in the wrong direction.

Per Reuters:

Oliver Zipse, who has long pushed for regulators to permit various technologies – including alternative fuels like e-fuels or biofuels and hydrogen fuel cell cars – said the mood in Europe was “trending towards one of pessimism” and the region needed a new regulatory framework to remain competitive.

“A correction of the 100% BEV target for 2035 as part of a comprehensive CO2-reduction package would also afford European OEMs less reliance on China for batteries,” Zipse said at the Paris Motor Show, adding: “To maintain the successful course, a strictly technology-agnostic path within the policy framework is essential.”
This is a super awkward position for German automakers as they both need China as an export partner and yet, also, are afraid of being overwhelmed by Chinese car companies. If the EU walks back its CO2 requirements that would make things easier for German companies and buy them some time.
French automakers are a little less stressed as they rely less on China and are more focused on the European market. Renault is one of the few European companies not slashing its profit forecasts for this reason.

Sales For Electrified Vehicles Are Up 30.5% Worldwide

Byd Seal Goodwood 1

Electrification is coming, albeit slowly in most places. Obviously, the one place it’s accelerating is China.

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Again, from Reuters:

EVs – whether fully electric (BEV) or plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) – sold worldwide reached 1.69 million in September, Rho Motion data showed.

Sales in China jumped 47.9% in September and reached 1.12 million vehicles, while in the United States and Canada they were up 4.3% to 0.15 million.

In Europe, EV sales rose 4.2% to 0.3 million units, thanks to a 24% jump in the United Kingdom and gains in Italy, Germany and Denmark, Lester said.

Chinese EV sales in the EU and Britain are on the rise.

What I’m Listening To This Morning

I heard an interview with Stephen Malkmus where he said he wanted to call his first solo album “Swedish Reggae” but the shot of him from the cover made it look too much like it might be an actual Swedish reggae album so they killed the idea. Probably smart. “The Hook” is my favorite song from that self-titled album, but it’s “Jennie and the Ess-Dog” that’s fueling my morning.

The Big Question

Marketing? Really? Please try to come up for a slogan or marketing plan to sell any current Stellantis product.

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Mike Smith
Mike Smith
3 days ago

I had this thought when reading the BYD Sealion 7 article, but I think it fits here in today’s TMD as well – the auto industry at large is currently suffering a ‘blandness’ epidemic that they don’t seem to have any motivation to get out of, why is that? I’m starting to wonder if this is at least in part due to the disappearance of ‘tastemakers’ in the automobile space.
From the the 60’s through the 90’s, print car magazines held a lot of sway – influential writers threw their weight behind certain models or market segments and changed the course of the industry – think David E. Davis and the BMW 2002, for a seminal example. Then in the 2000’s and 2010’s that mantle was arguably taken up by Top Gear – just think about how hard the auto companies chased ‘Ring times and Stig lap records during that time.
Now? For good or ill the automotive journalism landscape has been extremely decentralized, with no one place setting the tone. Certainly budgets have been sliced to the bone such that almost no one does performance testing anymore.
Set against that, for the last decade or more there has been this metronomic repetition (stemming from where?) that “enthusiasts don’t represent the real car market” – and at some point we just started to believe it.
All that combined has led to the carcinization of new car offerings to the midsize crossover SUV – rugged styling so that buyers can pretend they’re active and outdoorsy, with the whole vehicle designed around the optimum hip-point so that those same self-deluding arthritis-ridden sexagenarian consumers can comfortably flop in and out of the things without having to move their joints too much.
Stellantis, and if they were being honest with themselves, all the car companies, have a much bigger threat than Chinese imports – the looming threat of general malaise about cars in general. If they continue to cater solely to consumers who don’t give a shit about cars… eventually no one will give a shit about cars, and how are you going to charge a premium and make a profit on a product no one cares about? That way lies commoditization – the ultimate same-ness of everything, produced by the lowest bidder. Car prices will end up like industrial electric motor prices – price = raw material cost (by weight) + tiny margin to pay for the depreciation of the production tooling.
What Stellantis needs is 1) a sexy halo car for people to get irrationally excited about (paging Viper), 2) a massive marketing push to get every auto blog, every car youtuber, every dashing hero in popular TV shows, every debonair spy movie lead, all of them doing smokey burnouts and implausibly jumping rivers and leaving frustrated Ferrari-driving villains in their dust everywhere, before parking the thing next to an unobtrusive product-placement of Hornets and Durangos.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
3 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

Perhaps they seriously think the new Charger will fit the bill of halo car.

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
3 days ago
Reply to  Bob the Hobo

They’ll need to figure out how to produce some modern equivalent of Them Duke Boys and get them jumping rivers and out running Roscoe in their new Dodge Charger in a hurry if they want that to work.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
3 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

They may see this as a viable option with the success of Yellowstone. I mean, Twisters was already a commercial for Ram. Time for Dodge to have a show, right?

Data
Data
3 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

I’m trying to imagine a modern take on The Dukes of Hazzard. The best I came up with was a Electric Dodge Charger with a pride flag painted on the roof.

Carl Nichols
Carl Nichols
3 days ago
Reply to  Data

I would watch that.

Disphenoidal
Disphenoidal
3 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

Agreed that if automakers don’t start making more interesting cars, it will be like competing against all the weird non-brands you see on Amazon that all sell the same thing. To me that means producing something 1) interesting and not just because it has more screens, interesting in a fundamental car sense, 2) affordable, especially to young people, and 3) practical, because you can’t assume that everyone can have a “fun” car and a practical one, possibly with the assumption that the husband gets the fun one. That does not represent modern life.

DONALD FOLEY
DONALD FOLEY
3 days ago
Reply to  Disphenoidal

1964 1/2 Ford Mustang

Disphenoidal
Disphenoidal
3 days ago
Reply to  DONALD FOLEY

I was picturing brown diesel manual wagon but your idea is better.

Nathan
Nathan
3 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

Ever watch Chicago PD? They are always chasing after the bad guys in the most expensive Dodge and Jeep models.

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
3 days ago
Reply to  Nathan

I don’t watch that show, but that’s the sort of thing that they need to build enthusiasm for the brand. Except probably more of it; the idea of a ‘hero car’ seems to be dead currently – I can think of quite a few cars that were central to the storytelling of a bunch of TV shows and movies from the 70’s and 80’s, even though I wasn’t alive for half of that timespan; I can’t say the same thing from the 90’s onwards. But it matters a lot; it doesn’t get much more irrational than having a deep desire for a 1974 Dodge Monaco, but I do. Ditto ’69 Charger, Ferrari 308, ’82 Trans Am, ’83 GMC Vandura, ’81 Delorean, Aston Martin DB5… I’ll bet most adults today could name the shows and movies those cars are associated with off the top of their heads with no further clues. Advertisers would sell their mothers for that kind of enduring impact.

Nathan
Nathan
2 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

Someone on that show always had a charger from the early episodes, but the main guy used to drive and Escalade but they replaced it with a Durango and brought in a Jeep for someone else. Most likely after Stellantis paid them and gave them free cars. I am not sure the “hero car” strategy will work with cars that cost this much unless you have a much cheaper version that just looks like the hero car.

Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
2 days ago
Reply to  Mike Smith

So bring back “Viper”?

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
2 days ago
Reply to  Vic Vinegar

Well, I should have added a caveat that they have to be *good* shows and movies… XD

Abdominal Snoman
Abdominal Snoman
3 days ago
Reply to  Nathan

Never watched the show but I find it funny then that over the last 5 years the real Chicago PD has replaced all their Yukons with Explorers… I think to see a Durango patrol car you have to drive to Michigan, possibly Wisconsin.

Nathan
Nathan
2 days ago

I live in a city in Michigan and the cops here have the Explorers as well but also F-150s for some reason

MGA
MGA
3 days ago
Reply to  Nathan

Yeah but cops aren’t cool.

Chargers sold because bad guys are cool.

Nathan
Nathan
2 days ago
Reply to  MGA

The cops in the show are in the intelligence unit so they wear plainclothes and the cars are undercover until they turn the lights on. The Durango SRT, Charger SRT, and Jeep Trackhawk look cool if you are allowed to drive them like they do without getting hauled off to jail.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
3 days ago

“Why Chrysler Jeep Dodge Ram Customers Are Double-Screwed Right Now”

I believe in the porn world, that’s known as ‘DP’

But wait until Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge/Ram customers get Triple-Screwed… that’s known as an ‘Air Tight’…

 “To maintain the successful course, a strictly technology-agnostic path within the policy framework is essential.””

Blah blah blah… just another legacy auto exec wanted to dial back emissions mandates in a roundabout way.

The truth is, the policy framework IS technology-agnostic. It’s just that BEVs are the best solution compared to everything else. Anyone with a basic understanding of efficiency and the laws of thermodynamics would understand why BEVs are where it’s at.

Sadly it seems a lot of legacy automotive execs seem to lack this basic understanding of science.

Or even if they do understand, they’ll develop a convenient form of Amnesia so they can justify spending less on new tech investment that the shift to BEVs requires.

Please try to come up for a slogan or marketing plan to sell any current Stellantis product.”

I’ll do more than that… I’ll give you a whole commercial:

Fuck you, old Chrysler customers!

If you’re dumb enough to keep buying our shit, you’re a big enough schmuck to come to your local Stellantis dealer!!!

Bad deals! Sky-high MSRPs!!! Cars that break down! Thieves!

If you think you’re going to find a bargain at Stellantis, you can kiss our ass!

It’s our belief that you’re such a stupid motherfucker, you’ll fall for this bullshit—GUARANTEED!!!

If you find a better deal, shove it up your ugly ass! You heard us right! SHOVE IT UP YOUR UGLY ASS!!!

Bring your trade! Bring your title! Bring your wife! We’ll fuck her! That’s right!

WE’LL FUCK YOUR WIFE!!!

Because as Stellantis customer, you’re fucked six ways from Sunday!

Take a hike to your local Stellantis dealer – Home of Challenge Pissing!

That’s right! CHALLENGE PISSING!

How does it work? If you can piss six feet in the air straight up and not get wet, you get no down payment!

Don’t wait! Don’t delay! Don’t fuck with us, or we’ll rip your nuts off!

Only at Stellantis, the only car maker that tells you to fuck off!

Hurry up, asshole! This event ends the minute after you write us a cheque, and it better not bounce or you’re a dead motherfucker!

Go to hell!!!

Stellantis! The worlds exclusive home of the worst deals and the meanest sons-of-bitches!!!

GUARANTEED!!!!

RataTejas
RataTejas
3 days ago

That approach seems to work for Trump

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
3 days ago
Reply to  RataTejas

The guy who, at an amateur softball game, gets a base hit and just keeps running, daring the pitiful defense to throw him out, and then claims he got an inside-the-park home run.

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
3 days ago

Upvoted for pure fucking chutzpah. I love this so much.

Griznant
Griznant
3 days ago

I probably quote the “Challenge Pissing” bit a couple times each month. Classic comedy.

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
3 days ago

Hey, it worked for GM for a long, long time.

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
3 days ago

Channeling some old school Garage Journal vibes there…

DadBod
DadBod
3 days ago

I think it’s even worse, these people are getting DAP’d

Sensual Bugling Elk
Sensual Bugling Elk
3 days ago

Huh, I didn’t realize Kunkleman Chevrolet had expanded to Stellantis vehicles.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
3 days ago

Nah… it was Big Bill Hell that got some Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram franchises… LOL

Zeppelopod
Zeppelopod
2 days ago

oblique RCR references always get a thumbs-up from me

Chronometric
Chronometric
3 days ago

Buy any Stellantis vehicle, get a date with Morgan Fairchild.
She’s younger and hotter than our product lineup. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
3 days ago
Reply to  Chronometric

Make that Jane Seymour and I’ll start pulling my lines of credit.

A. Barth
A. Barth
3 days ago
Reply to  Mechjaz

I hope that’s not a euphemism.

Col Lingus
Col Lingus
3 days ago
Reply to  A. Barth

Don’t write a check your wang can’t cash?

SNL-LOL Jr
SNL-LOL Jr
3 days ago
Reply to  Chronometric

George Washington drove a Challenger*, so there’s that.

*built by Loyalists who fled north

Last edited 3 days ago by SNL-LOL Jr
F.Y. Jones
F.Y. Jones
3 days ago

I’ve got a 2012 Jeep Wrangler with 145,000 miles on it. It’s basically a mall crawler. I don’t care. I can haul my whole family plus my dog, and do it with the top down (and doors off if my wife isn’t in the car. She’s never liked that feature).

Given the mileage, it’s sort of time to find a new daily driver. I want another wrangler, but the downside has always been the mileage…so I’ve been looking at used 4xe’s (25 miles e-range kinda sucks, but it will cover about 70% of my commute).

Three weeks ago I found one I liked, which was actually a California manufacturer buy-back. Never dealth with one of those, but it was a really good deal in the spec I wanted, so I arranged a test drive+inspection by 3rd party mechanic; and the buy-back triggers didn’t look too serious.

Test drive went excellent. Was close to pulling the trigger. But as I was pulling out for the mechanic inspection, it flashed a check engine light (car had less than 10k miles too). No deal.

The four days later, FCA issues a recall for almost every 4xe car on the road (including the one I was about to buy). Battery fire hazard: you can no longer charge your PHEV car, nor can you park it inside due to fire risk. As of today, the recall is still pending with no announced fix.

I love my pre-existing Jeep. I really wanted to love that 4xe Jeep. But maybe there’s some qc/qa issues that they should be working on.

And for those that care, I don’t know what I’m gonna do. I still really want to see the 4xe suceed, but I just don’t know. And I don’t want 3 cars, but I may just keep my 2012 Jeep, and find a cheap EV as a daily driver. I’ve seen Kia EV6’s already listed in the high 20’s after the depreciation hit.

Fuzzyweis
Fuzzyweis
3 days ago
Reply to  F.Y. Jones

Yeah deals on used EVs are crazy now, depreciated all to heck between tax credits and Tesla dropping their prices, the market’s hit the floor and is digging.

Sucks about the 4xe, but also sad others like Ford and Toyota haven’t looked at adding some hybrid/plug-ins to their Broncos or Land Cruisers, they have the parts to do it.

Bob the Hobo
Bob the Hobo
3 days ago
Reply to  Fuzzyweis

The Land Cruiser is already hybrid only, but it would do well to have a PHEV option as well.

RataTejas
RataTejas
3 days ago
Reply to  F.Y. Jones

The Nissan Aviya or whatever it is, now 3500 down 99 a month 36 month lease. If I needed another set of wheels, 7K for three years on an electric SUV. Fuck and yes.

SNL-LOL Jr
SNL-LOL Jr
3 days ago
Reply to  RataTejas

And I thought Busyforks were cheap to lease. Holy shit. At zero down its’ like $200 a month.

Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
2 days ago
Reply to  SNL-LOL Jr

Yeah they are giving away those Ariyas. One guy on LeaseHackr picked up like 4 of them for the whole family.

404 Not Found
404 Not Found
3 days ago
Reply to  RataTejas

That’s a great deal, however it seems to be available in Colorado only, owing to some additional state incentive.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/no-you-probably-cant-lease-a-2024-nissan-ariya-for-99

TheDrunkenWrench
TheDrunkenWrench
3 days ago
Reply to  Matt Hardigree

I’ve been arguing a cheap EV lease. The problem is that’s an oxymoron in the Canadian market.

4jim
4jim
3 days ago
Reply to  F.Y. Jones

I have a 2012 Wrangler JKU sport with 168K and I beat the crap out of it off road often. It has been fantastic and is still under the lifetime bumper to bumper warranty. It is the most practical vehicle I have owned for my camping, canoeing, 3 large dogs. I even pulled a competition waterski boat with it for a few years.
I would love a new one and would want a rubicon as I go to around 5 off road parks a year and spend a few week in the back country on trails around the upper midwest.
BUT I cannot justify 70K for a wrangler rubicon.

F.Y. Jones
F.Y. Jones
3 days ago
Reply to  4jim

I was wandering the lot while contemplating that 4xe, and the prices on new jeeps blew my mind. They had a couple 392’s that were in the 90’s or low six figures. I know it’s a special model and all, but it ain’t that special.

4jim
4jim
3 days ago
Reply to  F.Y. Jones

Yep, the 392 is a $30K rig with $70K of add ons.

MGA
MGA
2 days ago
Reply to  4jim

I think a majority of that “add on” amount is just mark up.

Davey
Davey
3 days ago
Reply to  4jim

What warranty did you get where it’s covered at 168,000k?

4jim
4jim
3 days ago
Reply to  Davey

the lifetime Chrysler bumper-to-bumper warranty. There are only a few of us left. The stopped selling it years ago. $100 copay. It is awesome and some dealerships give me trouble.

Gaston
Gaston
3 days ago
Reply to  Davey

I have the same warranty on my ’14 GC – It’s called “MaxCare” and it’s pretty much an extension of the factory warranty that is for as long as you own your vehicle*(can’t be transferred). I bought it directly from MOPAR after I purchased the GC pre-owned and they even financed it for 2 years 0% int (I think I paid about $4K for it and it has paid for itself).

As a matter of fact, my GC (80K mi) is in the shop now for a new power steering pump which turned into two oil leaks and two coolant leaks and as of yesterday there is ‘play’ in the steering so they are giving me a new rack.
I will pay $100 deductible for all of these repairs – the deductible is per visit, not per repair.

This was a gamble for FCA at the time – they were betting folks like me would not keep the car longer than a few years. They do not offer this any more. Well, I started working from home shortly before I bought it and it’s paid off so I will keep it as long as I can.

* disclaimer: Just found this out recently. IF the value of the vehicle is less than the cost of the repair, they will only give you the value of the vehicle and it’s up to you to repair it (at that point, I will stop having the dealer repair). Thankfully with low miles, mine is still holding its value.

F.Y. Jones
F.Y. Jones
3 days ago
Reply to  Gaston

That’s crazy awesome. Way to milk it for all it’s worth. I’d be driving and maintaining that thing too.

4jim
4jim
2 days ago
Reply to  Gaston

good to know I also plan on owning my jeep forever. I now know I will not get a new engine or transmission out of Chrysler.

Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar
2 days ago
Reply to  4jim

I was with my parents a few months ago and we stopped at a stoplight in front of a Jeep dealer. They had a row of Wranglers and Grand Cherokees out front, with the lime green sticker prices in the windshields. $68,999, $63,999, $59,999…” My Dad looked over and was just shocked at how expensive those Jeeps were. I wonder how many people go in there thinking a Wrangler is still relatively “basic” only to find these prices.

4jim
4jim
2 days ago
Reply to  Vic Vinegar

I miss the days when the jeep line up was Wrangler, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee, and the Wrangler was the entry-level one.

TXJeepGuy
TXJeepGuy
3 days ago
Reply to  F.Y. Jones

I’d say pass on the 4XE. Get one with the 2.0 turbo/8 speed and it will get decent enough highway mileage with a lot fewer problems.

F.Y. Jones
F.Y. Jones
3 days ago
Reply to  TXJeepGuy

Been thinking about that. Complicated drivetrain aside, one of the other flaws with the 4xe is that it’s 800’s lbs heavier than than the ice drivetrain, so you’re taking a mileage hit from that extra wait once the battery is depleted (although it still employs a hybrid mode).

F.Y. Jones
F.Y. Jones
3 days ago
Reply to  F.Y. Jones

weight, not wait. I’d like to blame voice dictation, but my spelling/grammatical errors are all just brain farts today.

4jim
4jim
3 days ago
Reply to  F.Y. Jones

I have off-roaded with a few and the weight makes a difference They get stuck where I did not.

404 Not Found
404 Not Found
3 days ago
Reply to  4jim

I’ve read that low speed off-roading can be difficult in the 4xe. Mostly owing to finicky throttle modulation between stop and crawl. Have you experienced anything like that?

4jim
4jim
3 days ago
Reply to  404 Not Found

I do not know, I have not driven one just stood next to them on the trail. As I have a gas only sport without a rear locker and 4:1 low range of a rubicon I tend to use the skinny peddle a bit more.

Sid Bridge
Sid Bridge
3 days ago

The orchestra quietly comes in, intensity low, as the camera begins to pan across a Ram truck, starting from the front quarter. The music builds as it slowly moves down the side of the Cummins-powered, crew cab, long bed behemoth, endlessly panning as the voiceover cuts on:

“The new Ram is long. A lot of things in your life are long. Like the loan term on your old Ram. The loan term on your new Ram. Your student loan. Your dick. Your new Ram truck. Your brother’s prison term. Your ex’s nose. (quick cutaway) This potato chip I found in the bag that somehow remained intact even though it’s long (cuts back to the Ram, still panning) Your mother-in-law’s lifespan. Your wife’s to-do list she compiled for you. Your list of friends who want you to help them move because you have a truck. Teddy Long. A long-neck ice cold beer – you know, that thing that never let you down. The Ram Truck. Holy shit this thing is long. Buy one.”

Camera reaches the rear bumper, music fades.

Rad Barchetta
Rad Barchetta
3 days ago
Reply to  Sid Bridge

Please tell me there’s a “We Brake For Nobody” sticker on that bumper.

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
3 days ago
Reply to  Rad Barchetta

And a “No Fear” sticker next to it.

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
3 days ago
Reply to  Sid Bridge

Long chip is best chip, worthy of utmost respect and to be reverentially eaten last.

EmotionalSupportBMW
EmotionalSupportBMW
3 days ago

“ Here at Stellantis. We know that your 2021 Dodge Durango is probably at least acceptable for getting to A to B. But, We’ve heard from the Smiths. You know that family up the street, who thinks they’re better than you. Their son just got early admissions to Penn State fyi. And they were talking about how your family must be going thru a hard time. Sitting in the car pool lane in your late model Durango. Stan works hard and all, but really a 2021? Must be gambling debts. Where is their son going to go Binghamton? A lesser SUNY? You need to tell the Smiths to shove it. Sell some worldly possessions. Take some overtime. And go get that 2024 marginal improved Durango. You deserve it.”

D-dub
D-dub
3 days ago

Could anyone other than a Durango owner tell the difference between a 2021 and a 2024 Durango?

Lincoln Clown CaR
Lincoln Clown CaR
3 days ago
Reply to  D-dub

The 2021’s taillights have a few elements that no longer light up.

D-dub
D-dub
3 days ago

and that’s different than the 2024 how?

Argentine Utop
Argentine Utop
3 days ago
Reply to  D-dub

They are from the other side. Even years, odd years…

RataTejas
RataTejas
3 days ago

*may or may not include marginal improvements

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
3 days ago

Rec’d for the Binghellton slam. That place is so depressing in the winter. Noped out of there and didn’t look back.

Snake_in_the_grass
Snake_in_the_grass
3 days ago

I don’t understand. The Smiths want others to be jealous of them. Why would they want anybody to know that their son ended up at Penn State?

Abdominal Snoman
Abdominal Snoman
3 days ago

Maybe because it sounds way more impressive to say he left to go to Penn State than admitting he went to the state penitentiary?

Fuzzyweis
Fuzzyweis
3 days ago

If someone bought a car 3 years ago then…that car should still be good right? If they’re looking to offload that soon shouldn’t they have leased?

Not saying I haven’t had regerts soon after buying a car(anemic GMC Terrain) and took a loss on it just to get out, but if a bunch of people were buying new cars, and they’re underwater on their loans now just..hang on to them, powertrain warranties are at least 5 years.

Also for marketing, they just need to sell something snazzy with the new ones to help them move, like a free iphone or something, or if you’re in NC, buy a truck get a gun.

StillNotATony
StillNotATony
3 days ago

Has Stellantis thought about bringing back Joe Isuzu, but conveniently leaving off the disclaimer about how he’s lying? Then the marketing can say whatever they want!

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Username Loading...
3 days ago

Stellantis needs to take marketing notes from some other industry that has a product that is both terrible and financially ruinous. I’m talking about timeshares. You give people a free trip, all they have to do is listen to a 30 minute sales pitch. At which point you lock the in a room until they buy a new Durango at msrp.

StillNotATony
StillNotATony
3 days ago

So business as usual in the finance department?

Username Loading...
Username Loading...
3 days ago
Reply to  StillNotATony

Yes but with a free trip to get people into the finance department.

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
3 days ago

This sounds more of a life lesson for those people who purchased a Stellantis product with a 72/84/96 month loan, and then wondering why they’re underwater when they want to sell with most of the loan still outstanding and they’re trying to get a new car.

Sure, I have a bit of sympathy for those who need to offload the vehicle due to financial constraints (can’t afford it), but have little-to-none for those who simply want to get a ‘new one’ in a few short years.

Eggsalad
Eggsalad
3 days ago

When the Chrysler Corporation bought AMC/Jeep (and Renault-ish) in the 1980s, all they really wanted was Jeep. They shut down the AMC cars quickly, and just did enough with Renault to fulfill contractual obligations.

FCA should have done the same, and so should Stellantis. The only real moneymakers in the American arm of Stellantis are Jeep and (some) RAM trucks. I’m not sure why they keep Chrysler and Dodge alive. Shoulda bumped them off, like Chrysler did with AMC.

Last edited 3 days ago by Eggsalad
Tbird
Tbird
3 days ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

Jeep kills its owner, statement of fact.

Mr. Fusion
Mr. Fusion
3 days ago
Reply to  Eggsalad

The only real moneymakers in the American arm of Stellantis are Jeep and (some) RAM trucks.

Only because it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy: If you do not invest in an automotive brand — such as by, I dunno, releasing cars — then yeah, by default the brand will be a loser. For years they talked about what they were going to do with Chrysler, and then did none of those things. Yet they also eliminated all but one of the cars they DID have.

Even so, Dodge did great under Sergio. It was later management that put it under the same curse as Chrysler, by delaying new vehicle development.

I can’t stress enough that these were solvable problems. Dodge was a great example of aiming for a particular market, and hitting a bullseye. They could have done the same thing with Chrysler. But Stellantis went the opposite way and just…stopped doing things altogether. Which is honestly the craziest thing I’ve ever seen a car company [not] do.

World24
World24
3 days ago

TBQ: How about “We sold you absolute junk V8’s since 2003 and you loved them, so why not buy something we put a little more thought into?”

Spikersaurusrex
Spikersaurusrex
3 days ago

“What you owe on your old car is more than the current value (you’re “upside down” or in “negative equity”) and the best interest rate you can get is suddenly much higher.”

Sounds to me like it’s time to be content with the car you have, not go trade it in on something else that’s going to make your financial position worse, even if you can get lower payments in the short term. Once the new car smell wears off you’ll realize you’re exactly where you were before, but with thousands more debt.

MGA
MGA
2 days ago

Stop making sense.

A. Barth
A. Barth
3 days ago

The screws in the topshot are interesting.

They’re clearly designed to be countersunk, yet the perimeter of the [primitive] screw head is castellated crennelated apparently designed with angled points to keep the screw from digging in too deeply.

And are they made of brass? Seems like they might be decorative and have a furniture-related function; they’re too nice to be regular deck screws.

Brandon Forbes
Brandon Forbes
3 days ago
Reply to  A. Barth

You put more thought into the screws used in the top shot than Stellantis has put into any of their products.

A. Barth
A. Barth
3 days ago
Reply to  Brandon Forbes

😀

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
3 days ago
Reply to  A. Barth

Yeah, I’m with you. I’m using some yellow zinc ones right now and they aren’t nearly so pretty. I think these are furniture grade hardware.

Idle Sentiments
Idle Sentiments
3 days ago
Reply to  A. Barth

I believe those angled points on the screw head are milling nibs designed to remove material in lieu of pre-drilling with a countersink bit.

Disphenoidal
Disphenoidal
3 days ago

Correct, it’s a “ribbed head”—everyone quiet down—to facilitate countersinking in softwoods. Likely coated to prevent rust as well. https://www.rapidstartusa.com/product/10-x-3-flat-head-nibs-deck-screw-25-torx-drive-dual-thread-high-low-point-deck-drive-dsv-quik-guard-acq-compatible-coating-tan/

A. Barth
A. Barth
3 days ago

Interesting – so if the hole is not countersunk (common with soft woods like pine) the wider part of the screw head will compress the surrounding material and the milling portion will trim some of it away. Very cool – thanks!

I was thinking the nibs didn’t look very sharp but I suppose they wouldn’t need to be.

Der Foo
Der Foo
3 days ago
Reply to  A. Barth

TMD went primo on those screws. GRK Fasteners Star Drive Torx Bugle Head R4 Multi-purpose Wood Screw. They are a fancy Torx drive, brass-like plated, wood screw that you buy by count, not weight.

Pack of those screws probably are worth more than most 2021 Durangos.

Idle Sentiments
Idle Sentiments
2 days ago
Reply to  Der Foo

Spot on!

MrLM002
MrLM002
3 days ago

Marketing is a black hole for money, so no wonder it got the blame, even though it’s most likely unwarranted blame.

They should have never made the Hornet, it doesn’t make sense here or abroad.

Mr. Fusion
Mr. Fusion
3 days ago
Reply to  MrLM002

All of their European competitors have a compact CUV, so it made perfect sense for Alfa to make one and put their own sporty spin on it. Of course, it also made perfect sense to have done that five years ago — annnd this is when you know you’re talking about a Stellantis product.

Does it make sense as a Dodge? Well, Stellantis is shockingly absent in a number of CUV/SUV categories that do massive numbers for all other manufacturers. I think they definitely needed something, but it had to be either really good [quality-wise] or really affordable, and the Hornet is neither. It is quick though — most powerful in the segment, IIRC.

MrLM002
MrLM002
2 days ago
Reply to  Mr. Fusion

With the MPG it gets combined with the shotty reliability all in a package that is as sporty as a pair of crocs they shouldn’t have.

Icouldntfindaclevername
Icouldntfindaclevername
3 days ago

Please try to come up for a slogan or marketing plan to sell any current Stellantis product.

At least we’re not Nissan right now!

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
3 days ago

You’d think Nissan is saying the same thing back about Stellantis.

Parsko
Parsko
3 days ago
Reply to  Spikedlemon

Insert the Spider man gif of two spidermans pointing at one another.

RC
RC
3 days ago

sold some of the most average cars for some of the most above average cars and lack good, affordable alternatives to sell people.

I think you mean “sold some of the most average cars for some of the most above average prices” – might want to fix that.

And – marketing isn’t the issue, so I’d agree with you there. Marketing can juice demand, but you need people to identify a requirement that isn’t met by their current vehicle (faster/nicer/techier/greater reliability). The average age of cars on roads in the US is 12 years – while there have been marginal technical and safety improvements since then, it’s not enough to compel many consumers to jump. People who are underwater on their cars are just going to have to keep them longer, which might be sad for Stellantis, but I’m not going to shed too many tears over it.

BMW’s Oliver Zipse was also at the Paris Motor Show and he’s arguing that the EU CO2 goals, which require electrification, are going in the wrong direction.

I’d be inclined to agree with him. If the goal is electrifying cars, then it needs to be done in lockstep with greater clean energy generation (soup to nuts; things like wind power, which can generate net carbon savings if they meet their forecast generation but which generate greater waste when they only hit 1/4 of their expected lifespan or power generation, probably shouldn’t count here), otherwise it’s merely displacing emissions to wherever the power provider is generating power. BMW has also long been one of the handful of automakers to do things like hydrogen.

In the states, CNG – which are one of the lowest emissions vehicles out there – vehicles got stifled by the same regulatory regime that encourages electrification, which is at best a step sideways.

Trust Doesn't Rust
Trust Doesn't Rust
3 days ago

Please try to come up for a slogan or marketing plan to sell any current Stellantis product.

Place tiny silver Stellantis badges on the lower front fenders of every car. After all, it saved GM 15 years ago.

Brandon Forbes
Brandon Forbes
3 days ago

Does Stellantis even have a brand logo? Everyone knows GM’s, but I can’t think of anything that was supposed to represent Chysler in any of their names since the pentagon star thing from the 90s.

Trust Doesn't Rust
Trust Doesn't Rust
3 days ago
Reply to  Brandon Forbes

It was called the Pentastar.

They do have a logo; it’s STELLANTIS with a bunch of dots around the “A”. Oh, and the “A” is missing the horizontal bar. I think it’s a trimflation thing.

Honestly, it could be a logo for anything.

Last edited 3 days ago by Trust Doesn't Rust
Brandon Forbes
Brandon Forbes
3 days ago

I really should have known that.

Oh right. I googled it and it looks like a NASA project. Or I think it did. It was so forgettable that it’s already fading.

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
3 days ago

Try the old BOGO approach. Works for me on groceries. The downside is that then you’re stuck with two Stellantis vehicles.

Rippstik
Rippstik
3 days ago
Reply to  Canopysaurus

Some local dealers were doing that in 2008. Buy a new Cummins Ram 2500, get a free Caliber!

JumboG
JumboG
3 days ago
Reply to  Canopysaurus

Kinda backfired IMHO. I just stock up when they are BOGO, but won’t buy now if they aren’t.

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
3 days ago
Reply to  JumboG

True, but I feel the same way about Stellantis.

Dottie
Dottie
3 days ago

The all new Hornet: Better than walking(tm)*

*In some cases walking is proven to be more reliable

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
3 days ago

If trying to get pregnant, Pacifica may significantly lower chances of becoming pregnant. Pacifica may increase chances for depression, irritability and anger. Noise sensitivity may be a side effect while using Pacifica. An antidepressant may be indicated if you experience these side effects. Do not drink alcohol while on Pacifica. Consult with a medical professional before deciding if Pacifica is right for you.

Parsko
Parsko
3 days ago

Counterpoint, it’s pretty easy and probably comfortable to shag in a Pacifica.

Drive By Commenter
Drive By Commenter
3 days ago
Reply to  Parsko

Side effects may vary.

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
3 days ago

Bring back the 10 year / 100k mile warranties. 5 year / 60k bumper to bumper.

If there’s anything that can goose sales, it’s by offering potential customers the peace of mind that they won’t be on the hook for repairs over the life of their (likely) insanely long loan term. There’s a serious contingent of people who are concerned about the reliability of their current lineup. So stand behind them.

Now is there a chance this could bankrupt Stellantis in a matter of moments? Yeah. But those claims are going to come down the road (these cars are warrantied, just for a shorter time after all). Give your sales a shot in the arm and give yourself a chance while you figure some of the other issues out.

Matt Sexton
Matt Sexton
3 days ago

This is a good strategy that will work short-term while they work out their other issues. My wife bought a Kia in March and one of the lynchpins to that decision over anything else was the warranty.

Last edited 3 days ago by Matt Sexton
No Kids, Just Bikes
No Kids, Just Bikes
3 days ago

This is the way.

Mr. Fusion
Mr. Fusion
3 days ago

This worked for them during the uncertainty of the Cerberus years. Honestly, every mainstream automaker should have followed Hyundai/Kia and Mitsubishi’s lead on this years ago, no corporate financial crisis needed.

4jim
4jim
3 days ago

I was at a jeep dealership off-road event and was talking to the owner who’s dad started the dealership back in 1957 and this guy has been working there his whole life and owns the place. They even have an on site off road park. He just does not seem worried as in his long view as just a jeep dealership he has seen corporate ownership change a half dozen-ish times, good times and bad times and he is just going to keep selling jeeps.

Arch Duke Maxyenko
Arch Duke Maxyenko
3 days ago

I was in my showroom
And I was just like, staring at the walls thinking about everything
But then again, I was thinking about nothing
And then Carlos came in, and I didn’t even know he was there
He called my name and I didn’t hear him
And then he started screaming, “Mike, Mike”
And I go, “What? What’s the matter?”
He goes, “What’s the matter with you?”
I go, “There’s nothing wrong, Carlos”
He goes, “Don’t tell me that, you’re on drugs”
I go, “No Carlos, I’m not on drugs, I’m okay, I’m just thinking, you know? Why don’t you get me a new car?”
He goes, “No, you’re on drugs”
I go, “Carlos, I’m okay, I’m just thinking”
And he goes, “No, you’re not thinking, you’re on drugs
Normal people don’t act that way”
I go, “Carlos, just get me a new car, please? All I want’s a new car”
And he wouldn’t give it to me
All I wanted was a new car
Just one new car
And he wouldn’t give it to me
Just a new car

Jack Trade
Jack Trade
3 days ago

You know what Carlos, I like you. You’re not like the other CEOs, here, in the automotive world…

Ronald Pottol
Ronald Pottol
3 days ago

This should have more up votes, so, as my part to increase cultural literacy, here’s the song that’s referenced, Suicidal Tendencies’ “Institutionalized” https://youtu.be/LoF_a0-7xVQ

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
3 days ago
Reply to  Ronald Pottol

Ahhh I knew it was familiar but I didn’t quite place it

ESO
ESO
3 days ago

“I’m not crazy, you’re the one that’s crazy!”

Jnnythndrs
Jnnythndrs
3 days ago

“I went to YOUR dealerships, I listened to YOUR salespeople, I financed with YOUR bank, so how can you say I’M crazy?” *

  • my apologies to Mike Muir
V10omous
V10omous
3 days ago

Please try to come up for a slogan or marketing plan to sell any current Stellantis product.

“I’d rather be Cummin than Strokin” might be their last hope at this point.

Brandon Forbes
Brandon Forbes
3 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

Ok I have to begrudgingly admit that’s pretty awesome.

Urban Runabout
Urban Runabout
3 days ago
Reply to  V10omous

“Blow your wad on a Ram”

Last edited 3 days ago by Urban Runabout
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